Is D&D becoming more fantastical?

[Mallus]

No.

I seem to recall stories of 1st ed. characters that did things like beat up Thor, marry Isis, and spend their leisure time surfing the galaxy on plundered Battlestars...

So, in summary, no.

(any game favored by 12 year old boys and those who are kindred spirits to 12 year boy can't be any more or less fantastical...it's all infinity +/-1)

 

[Oryan77]

Well, now you're getting into fine detail - whether the fighter, specifically, is more fantastic does not say whether the game overall is more fantastic. What you suggest there, for example, can already be pulled off by a cleric (or a paladin and warhorse) pretty easily. So, I wouldn't call it more fantastic than already exists.

I'm just trying to look at it the way that I think the OP is referring to (since I seem to agree with him). I'm worried that in the 4e core setting, anyone who decides to just pick up a weapon and tromp out into the world to become an adventurer will eventually have magical abilities in 4e. If a Fighter, Barbarian, or Rogue starts doing magic-like maneuvers similar to those in the Bo9S, then I'd say it definitely is more fantastic than before. A Fighter or Rogue to me never had anything to do with casting magic. That's what I liked about them and it was something that made them more different from other classes....they were the "normal" classes

I'm not ranting about anything right now though. They could be giving them maneuvers that are like extraordinary feats rather than like spell casting abilities. I'd have no problem with that.

 

[Maliki]

More fantastic? No. More like a video game? Bingo!

Agreed

 

[ShadowX]

I'm just trying to look at it the way that I think the OP is referring to (since I seem to agree with him). I'm worried that in the 4e core setting, anyone who decides to just pick up a weapon and tromp out into the world to become an adventurer will eventually have magical abilities in 4e. If a Fighter, Barbarian, or Rogue starts doing magic-like maneuvers similar to those in the Bo9S, then I'd say it definitely is more fantastic than before. A Fighter or Rogue to me never had anything to do with casting magic. That's what I liked about them and it was something that made them more different from other classes....they were the "normal" classes

I'm not ranting about anything right now though. They could be giving them maneuvers that are like extraordinary feats rather than like spell casting abilities. I'd have no problem with that.

As has been repeated ad infinitum on these boards, many of the Bo9S maneuvers are non-magical and I suspect that 4e fighters will draw from that spectrum rather than the magical abilities of a swordsage.

What I find hard to swallow is that many people want mundane fighters and rogues and yet how do you balance such a class with one that can summon demons to do his bidding. Personally, I think most of the fantastical elements of fighters and rogues are abstracted out, because they seem to have no problem going toe-to-toe with the pit fiend the wizard just summoned. Fourth Edition just seems to be removing that abstraction and mechanically representing the incredible things martial classes would have to do to survive in the world of D&D.

 

[Oryan77]

As has been repeated ad infinitum on these boards, many of the Bo9S maneuvers are non-magical and I suspect that 4e fighters will draw from that spectrum rather than the magical abilities of a swordsage.

People on these boards can repeat it as often as they want...that doesn't mean that other people can't still be concerned. They've added Tieflings as a core race....so nothing will surprise me now....and I'm a Planescape DM who's favorite race is Tiefling...yet I have a problem with that

 

[Doug McCrae]

Props to the OP for not mentioning anime or video games. 'Fantastical' is a good way to put it.

The average joe isn't getting any weirder. 1st level commoner = 0th level human. The world is somewhat weirder. Eberron is certainly strange, stranger than Greyhawk, though not as strange as the 2e settings.

PCs are probably weirder now than when the game started. Half-dragons, Savage Species, tieflings, hulking hurlers and many other bizarre PrCs. 4e PCs will start out more powerful than any previous edition.

But... in white box OD&D, Gary mentions the possibility of a balrog PC. There's a crashed spaceship in Greyhawk, a portal to Alice In Wonderland and a demi-deity that uses sixguns. 1e has psionics and rules for crossovers with Boot Hill and Gamma World. And you can't get weirder than Gamma World. You just can't.

So on balance, I don't think D&D is getting weirder. It was bloody weird to begin with.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I don't think the game, itself, is more fantastical. Even in OD&D, you had references to robots and androids, Barsoom/Mars, et cetera. However, I think the OP is correct that D&D PCs have gotten more fantastic/magical/weird. Obviously, I'm talking about a general trend; exceptions always exist.

 

[Keldryn]

A Fighter or Rogue to me never had anything to do with casting magic. That's what I liked about them and it was something that made them more different from other classes....they were the "normal" classes

You mean apart from the Thief's ability to cast Magic-User spells from scrolls, right?

 

[Pinotage]

I never played 2e, having stopped at the end of 1e, so I've missed the whole 'kits' business entirely, though it seems that 3.xe and 2e were following towards similar lines.

Perhaps I'm just a fan of having normal people do extraordinary things, although still being normal for their race. The vast influx of supernatural and magical abilities of non-magical classes has made things appear quite magical. Perhaps that's not a bad thing - our perception or portrayel of a magical fantasy world might be too normal. In a place where hippogriffs and other weird creatures abound, who's to say that even martial specialists can't somehow harness that magic.

Magic has predominantly been something that's come from either magical items or spells - now it seems that classes can develop certain magical abilties outside the scope of those things, and admittedly even 3e core has its fair share of that. It's just started to become more abundant and all the talk about 'once per day encounters' seems to encourage a more fantastical approach to gaming where characters can do magical things right out of the block.

Pinotage

 

[Oryan77]

You mean apart from the Thief's ability to cast Magic-User spells from scrolls, right?

The magic isn't coming from the thief, it's coming from the scroll. He's just activating it just like he would be activating his magic boots or whatever