is D&D evil? Thoughts please

[Wicht]

I have been having an online debate with him about how gaming isn't evil. He comes back with quoting scripture,..." The appearance of witchcraft..." that sort of thing.
I asked him why as a former player, he subscribes to that kind of thought and he say's "If I knew then what I know now..."

Please be nice in your response as we all know that many people have become brainwashed by just about anything and everything and we don't wish to insult anyone,... leave that to me. -Jim

I would start out by disagreeing with you that many people become brainwashed. Though such a notion was highly popular back in the 80's with families kidnapping their family members away from cults to "unbrainwash" them, often violently, subsequent observations have shown that many of these people went back into the cults anyway because the cult was meeting some need. On the other hand the most effective long term way to draw people out of cults is through rational discussion. Even in religion, many people believe what they believe for a reason.

As to DnD being percieved as evil, your friend has a point about avoiding the appearance of evil. This is a valid religious concern for a fundamentalist Christian. If you really wish to strongly argue with him then you need to acknowledge the validity of his point from his perspective. Then proceed to make the following arguements

1) Role-playing is not inherently evil nor is it inherently tied in to the occult. These are two points that it is easier for him to accept as long as he had a good role-playing experience himself
a) tied into this, you can show that the use of fantasy in literature can have a positive Christian influence (C.S Lewis in particular is a good example)
b) A knowledge of the occult is not the same as participation on the occult. Indeed one should be versed enough to recognize the occult if one wishes to avoid it

2) If there are those around him who mistakenly associate Roleplaying with the occult he should abstain from it for their sakes but....
a) It is permisable to educate those around him and then once they have changed their opinion participate
b) If roleplaying is not inherently evil then others who are not around those with mistaken notions are free to participate in them (Romans 14 is the scripture you want to make this point)
c) If he is not surrounded by those who think that it is evil he himself could participate in it.

 

[Shiv]

D&D is exceedingly evil. Let's take a look at it from this standpoint.

1. Buying gaming books costs money. Keeping up on all the stuff put out costs a LOT of money. That makes me want to have more money so I can buy more. That, as well as simply wanting more books, is greed, pure and simple.

2. I often find myself wishing MY character ended up with the cool stuff. I get jealous when someone comes up with something that saves the day in the game, when I couldn't. Sounds like envy.

3. Girls in chainmail bikinis? Some of that new artwork. Particularly the very naughty Beshaba and... Um. Lust. Let's just leave it at that.

4. Once or twice a week, I sit around just gaming. Not doing anything productive. Not getting exercise. Sittin' and gamin'. Sloth.

5. When I craft a story that entertains and makes my players go "wow", I get filled with a little hubris. Yeah, I admit it. I feel pride.

6. When my character dies, I get upset. Sometimes, I get downright angry. Wrath it is.

7. And when I game, I consume. A LOT. I suck down Cheetos, Pringles, Dew, and pizza like there's no tomorrow. There's yer gluttony.

Greed
Envy
Lust
Sloth
Pride
Wrath
Gluttony

Yep. Straight to the burning pit for me.

And the point? The above argument holds only slightly more water than any argument that I have ever heard anyone make regarding D&D being evil.

 

[Leopold]

Yep. Straight to the burning pit for me.

.

burn pagan burn!!!!!

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: is D&D evil? Thoughts please

This is a valid religious concern for a fundamentalist Christian. If you really wish to strongly argue with him then you need to acknowledge the validity of his point from his perspective.

Oh, I don't know about that.

Look at it like this.

1) Person A reads a religious text.
2) Person B reads Faiths & Pantheons.
3) Person A believes in the religious text.
4) Person B believes in Faiths & Pantheons.

What's the difference? There isn't one. Neither book is more important than the other. Neither book is more believeable than the other. This is but one of the reasons why I don't even bother pursuing such arguments.

 

[castlewalls]

response

Thanks for the responses! Yes it does irritate me that he responds with quotes instead of telling me what HE thinks. It's sad that he seems to not be able to think for himself anymore as he's a highly intelligent (which is different from wisdom...) person.

He even told me once that he doesn't watch Hercules (when it was on) as it had false god references, etc....
I guess that rules out tv as a whole.
It just blows me away that someone who played before, knowing what the game is about can do a 180. I just wonder what they put in the (un)holy water at their church.

It's a good thing satan requires us to be able to read, do math, have an imagination, artistic talent, friends and the drive to put it all together in order to play a game (I did say "leave that to me..."). Imagine the good we can do if we apply our strengths to the betterment of mankind! satan would be proud! I'd have him over for dinner, be he never comes when I call.....

Anyway. I wish people who believe that gaming is evil would just say what they believe (if they could still tell the difference) and stop quoting scripture like it's the truth (oops!). It makes me wonder what they do/how they respond with every other situation in life.

As my friend, I find it hard to not come out and tell him what an idiot he is, so I just laugh at him and smile quietly to myself.

It's the least I can do.

 

[Taloras]

burn pagan burn!!!!!

Burn non-pagan, burn!

Ive had to deal with this several times, part of it being the fact that I AM pagan when the rest of my family is bible-thumping christian.

 

[alsih2o]

" He became a born again (nothing wrong with that...)."

all my characters togther, over 20 years of gaming, haven't killed as many folks as christians have......have a good look at whether there is anything "wrong with that" or not....

 

[Furn_Darkside]

" He became a born again (nothing wrong with that...)."

all my characters togther, over 20 years of gaming, haven't killed as many folks as christians have......have a good look at whether there is anything "wrong with that" or not....

Which has not killed nearly as many people as governments have- so is being poltically active something "wrong" due to bad things having been done with its power?

FD

 

[TiQuinn]

Is D&D evil?

Luckily, I haven't run into anybody yet who thought the game was evil. Goofy, yes. Dorky, yes. Childish, yes. Evil, no.

 

[Wicht]

Re: Re: Re: is D&D evil? Thoughts please

Oh, I don't know about that.

The two christian principles involved are as follows...

1) A christian must be concerned about reputation. A christian with a good reputation in a community is one more likely to influence the behavior of others. Therefore if a thing has the appearance of evil and can harm the reputation then the Christian should abstain from the behavior that might mistakenly cast doubt upon their reputation.

2) A christian should not engage in action which offends a brother. This does not preclude trying to change a brothers mind but generally speaking christians are to avoid creating problems between members of the church.

Now those who are non-christians may disagree with the principles themselves but the principles are generally accepted amongst most fundamental christians. Attacking these principles is not the way in which to win an arguement against a christian who dislikes DnD. The way to do it is through a methodical examination of the facts and the demonstration that DnD is not the same as the occult, witchcraft and satanism.

He even told me once that he doesn't watch Hercules (when it was on) as it had false god references, etc....
I guess that rules out tv as a whole.

This demonstrates well where he is coming from and shows the best way to argue. As I stated above, it is demonstrably true that a reference to or a knowledge of a thing is not the same as participation in that thing. The question is not whether Hercules was referencing false gods but whether said reference was promoting the real world reverence of these Gods.