Is D20 Modern more deadlier than D&D 3e
- Thread starter Thunhus
- Start date
Henry
Autoexreginated
Lessee...
10th level character (3rd level strong hero/7th level soldier with 13 CON) will have something like 3d8 + 7d10 +10 hit points - and average of 62 hit points.
a 9mm will dish out 7 damage per shot. However, each hit carries a chance of doing a critical, for about 14 damage - enough to cause a fortitude save. So, he will go down very likely somewhere between 6 and 9 hits - but the 9th hit for certain, assuming average damage. Someone with better math skills could give you a more accurate number.
Now, keep in mind that a 10th level character taking 9 shots, does NOT necessarily represent that person taking 9 direct hits from a firearm. Just like in D&D, It represents grazing shots, pulled tendons while wrenching one's self out of the way of gunfire, the splinters of brick that got embedded in the skin when the bullet hit one inch away from his head, etc. Now, a confirmed critical I would almost certainly call a direct hit, but that's just me.
It's not necessarily that much deadlier or LESS deadly - it's about the same. The only difference is that most characters are walking around with one-handed ranged weapons that do the damage of greatswords.
If there is an edge, it's towards D&D, because of the massive damage threshold being larger (50 points instead of being equal to CON. )
10th level character (3rd level strong hero/7th level soldier with 13 CON) will have something like 3d8 + 7d10 +10 hit points - and average of 62 hit points.
a 9mm will dish out 7 damage per shot. However, each hit carries a chance of doing a critical, for about 14 damage - enough to cause a fortitude save. So, he will go down very likely somewhere between 6 and 9 hits - but the 9th hit for certain, assuming average damage. Someone with better math skills could give you a more accurate number.
Now, keep in mind that a 10th level character taking 9 shots, does NOT necessarily represent that person taking 9 direct hits from a firearm. Just like in D&D, It represents grazing shots, pulled tendons while wrenching one's self out of the way of gunfire, the splinters of brick that got embedded in the skin when the bullet hit one inch away from his head, etc. Now, a confirmed critical I would almost certainly call a direct hit, but that's just me.
It's not necessarily that much deadlier or LESS deadly - it's about the same. The only difference is that most characters are walking around with one-handed ranged weapons that do the damage of greatswords.
If there is an edge, it's towards D&D, because of the massive damage threshold being larger (50 points instead of being equal to CON. )
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Radiating Gnome
Adventurer
Actually, a lot of this has been borne out in my home game.
One of my players has had her character captured, and while the rest of the party tries to rescue her, I've set her up with a temporary character - a D20 Modern character. She's a Strong3/Shadowslayer7 (a polish WWII refugee that the party brought back to Greyhawk - it's a long story).
She's roughly the same level as the rest of the party -- who are mostly 10-11th level. But thrust into the D&D world, and without magic items, she had a hard time standing up to the punishment that was being dished out. The player was smart about it, and hung back, but even with her defense bonus she has one of the lower ACs in the party, and her only magic weapon was a normal longsword that she could imbue with her own power (shadow slayer talent).
I would've liked to see her go toe to toe with some of the big bads a bit more, but could understand her reticence to charge in the way the monster dwarf in the party does.
-rg
One of my players has had her character captured, and while the rest of the party tries to rescue her, I've set her up with a temporary character - a D20 Modern character. She's a Strong3/Shadowslayer7 (a polish WWII refugee that the party brought back to Greyhawk - it's a long story).
She's roughly the same level as the rest of the party -- who are mostly 10-11th level. But thrust into the D&D world, and without magic items, she had a hard time standing up to the punishment that was being dished out. The player was smart about it, and hung back, but even with her defense bonus she has one of the lower ACs in the party, and her only magic weapon was a normal longsword that she could imbue with her own power (shadow slayer talent).
I would've liked to see her go toe to toe with some of the big bads a bit more, but could understand her reticence to charge in the way the monster dwarf in the party does.
-rg
Mordane76
First Post
The Massive Damage mechanic from d20 Modern is the only thing, IMO, that raises the potential mortality of d20 Modern versus D&D 3E. Otherwise, the systems are comparable.
If the 3E characters had to worry about the massive damage mechanic from d20 Modern, there would be a LOT more dead D&D characters, even with magic items -- especially as they gain levels. Monsters above CR 8 can usually dish out 12-18 points of damage in a hit, and you only need to take that kinda punishment so many times before you fail the save and drop. Now, once your Fortitude save makes it past like +10... the Massive Damage mechanic becomes a little less worrisome, but still, that's why there's been a lot of discussion about house-ruling the mechanic for some kind of scaling with level or damage.
If the 3E characters had to worry about the massive damage mechanic from d20 Modern, there would be a LOT more dead D&D characters, even with magic items -- especially as they gain levels. Monsters above CR 8 can usually dish out 12-18 points of damage in a hit, and you only need to take that kinda punishment so many times before you fail the save and drop. Now, once your Fortitude save makes it past like +10... the Massive Damage mechanic becomes a little less worrisome, but still, that's why there's been a lot of discussion about house-ruling the mechanic for some kind of scaling with level or damage.
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Henry
Autoexreginated
Mistwell said:
I have to disagree. In many D&D games, the AC is benefitted from Ability boosting magics, from armor boosting magics such as bracers of armor, natural armor boosting magics, and many additional sorts of dodge bonuses.
In d20 Modern, you really only have three types of bonuses: Ability, dodge, and equipment. Discounting magic and FX, it rises a good bit slower. Counting the FX stuff, it starts to even out again.
Consider that the highest equipment bonus is +9 (from the hostile entry armor, or whatever it's called.) then, the Defense bonus only raises as high as +5 to +12, depending on class. Add one or two points more due to feats, and that's still an armor class in the high 20's to low 30's. Some D&D armor classes (if power-gamed to the max) can reach the 40's to the 50's. (I know about the Smack-downs with characters of AC 130 or so, but most people don't pull out every trick in the book.) So in the end, there is a disparity. Most d20 Modern characters of 10th level or so have an AC of maybe 22 ?
There's typically no magical healing, especially at lower levels, and every aggressive villain with money has the equivalent of ranged greatswords and 4 die fireballs. We've had at least one person down to negative hps in every fight, even though we learned rapidly to use every available object as cover
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad
Henry said:
The comparison isn't JUST to D&D, it's as regards the damage done by a non magic weapon (gun). Defense increases, damage remains static. Defese might not increase at the same rate as D&D magic can allow (though I still think that is arguable), but it does increase MUCH faster than attack modifiers and damage done.
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