Is Dual Spells Feat balanced?

[mroberon1972]

So if I want to Dual Spell a fly and an improved invisibility, what level slot does that take? 7th? a 3rd and a 4th? Something else?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the feat. If the levels of the spells combine, then its akin to the Splice Spell feat I posted earlier and might not be completely broken.

Don't confuse his feat with my suggestion: His version seems to keep them seperate spells at their original spell levels.


Mr. Oberon

 

[Crothian]

So if I want to Dual Spell a fly and an improved invisibility, what level slot does that take? 7th? a 3rd and a 4th? Something else?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the feat. If the levels of the spells combine, then its akin to the Splice Spell feat I posted earlier and might not be completely broken.

The caster is still casting two spells, so you'd prepare them together. Fly as a 3rd, Improved Invisibility as a 4th, and they would have to be cast in the same round.

 

[Crothian]

Hmnnn... Time to reword the wording of the feat then. The Description only makes sense after you explain it.

Seems more balanced with that limit, but it's a moderatly complex limit. While that's not a bad thing, I try to avoid it for a simpler rule set.

One last thing, and I will cease attempting to bang it with my GM hammer: Your version does not increase the spell level due to increase power of the ability: as per the other Meta feats. You also missed again that there are spells with set effects instead of by level effects. Combine those with no limiters and you have a possibly messy situation. I don't have my books nearby, so I can't quote anything right now.

I have to say, you already seem adamant about this feat. If that's the case, then use it. If it does not pan out, advise the players you're pulling the feat. Just make sure they know about it when it is first offered.

Playtesting is the ONLY testing worth anything.

The feat is not my creation, I got it from AEG's Feat book. It's their wording I used but the last three sentences seem pretty clear to me. While it might look like I'm defending this feat adamantly and have only defended it, that 's just to keep a lively discussion by offering counter arguments. My intention is to get some other peoples opinion and then see if this feat is worth playtesting.

I hadn;t thought about the spells like Charm Person that caster level is almost meaningless for. People have made great points, and I'm very thankful for all the input.

 

[mroberon1972]

The feat is not my creation, I got it from AEG's Feat book. It's their wording I used but the last three sentences seem pretty clear to me. While it might look like I'm defending this feat adamantly and have only defended it, that 's just to keep a lively discussion by offering counter arguments. My intention is to get some other peoples opinion and then see if this feat is worth playtesting.

I hadn;t thought about the spells like Charm Person that caster level is almost meaningless for. People have made great points, and I'm very thankful for all the input.

Er... This made it into a published book?

Whew.

I don't think I want to say anything else about that.

Crothian: No problem, and bring on the next one for sacrifice!


Mr. Oberon

 

[Trainz]

One spell: Ray of enfeeblement.

A 12th level caster can cast it and reduce a critter's strength by 1d6+5.

With this feat: 2d6+6. For two first level spells. No save. If he uses 3rd level slots with an empower feat (which is within the parameters), that's (2d6+6)+50%, or from 12 to 29 strength, average 19 or 20 . In one round, your critter has -10 to hit and damage (-15 damage if he uses a two-hander).

Notice a difference ?

I play a Sorcerer. I would LOVE it if my DM would give me this feat. I would also think he's flat-out of his mind.

 

[James McMurray]

Enervation would also combine nicely with the feat. For two 4th level slots you do what one 9th level slot can do, but you get to do it at 14th level instead of 17th.

 

[mroberon1972]

Try this as a new version. I have time on my hands:

Combined Spells (Metamagic Feat)
You can cast two or more spells with one action.
Prerequisite: Access to a minimum of 2nd level spells.
Benefit: You may cast two or more spells with the same action. The casting time is that of the worst casting time of the involved spells and must use all somatic, verbal and material components of the chosen spells. The chosen spells are chosen during spell preparation. The chosen spells are then combines into one 'spell' that has a combined spell level equal to the level of all involved spells, plus one level per spell. This means that two spells of 1st level would combine into a single 4th level spell or that a second, fourth, and 0 level spell would become a 9th level spell. The combined spells may have separate targets, or all be aimed at one target. Each spell goes off in the order that the caster chooses when preparing the combined spell. If no order is chosen, then the spells go off with the lowest level spells first.


Mr. Oberon

 

[maddman75]

It appears to be quite a bit better than QUicken spell. And in 3.0 it's even worse, as you could do this while hasted, getting a total of five spells in a single round (2 dual spells for normal action, 2 Duals from partial action, 1 quickened).

Ba-roken.

 

[Trainz]

Try this as a new version. I have time on my hands:

Combined Spells (Metamagic Feat)
You can cast two or more spells with one action.
Prerequisite: Access to a minimum of 2nd level spells.
Benefit: You may cast two or more spells with the same action. The casting time is that of the worst casting time of the involved spells and must use all somatic, verbal and material components of the chosen spells. The chosen spells are chosen during spell preparation. The chosen spells are then combines into one 'spell' that has a combined spell level equal to the level of all involved spells, plus one level per spell. This means that two spells of 1st level would combine into a single 4th level spell or that a second, fourth, and 0 level spell would become a 9th level spell. The combined spells may have separate targets, or all be aimed at one target. Each spell goes off in the order that the caster chooses when preparing the combined spell. If no order is chosen, then the spells go off with the lowest level spells first.

At 17th level a wizzy could cast 3 first level spells and 1 second level spell in one round.

Too much.

 

[mroberon1972]

What's the spellcaster level for all those spell ?

Because if it's not diminished, at 17th level a wizzy could cast 4 Rays of Enfeeblement for 4d6+20 strength drain, no save (average 34 strength, or -17 to hit and damage)...

To put it another way, it's like if everybody in the party versus this monster has DR 17/- and AC +17...

No save my #&*$! Fort save for each spell.

Whoops, just checked the 3.5 SRD. Guess they removed that. Oh well.

Well, he would be using up an 8th level slot. Compair with Polymorph any object or trap the soul. Both tend to be 'drop the sucker' spells.

Heck, compair with Hold Monster.

Mr. Oberon