Is ECL a problem from levels 1 to 6?

[Storyteller01]

I use them as is. So far they don't outstripe anyone. We've made it to 7th level without complaints. If anything, the +1 race users tend to gripe about being one step behind everyone else.

(NOTE: these are for a gesalt game) We have an ecl +2 sorcerer, a +1 psion, a +1 cleric, and a +0 ecl mechanist (think specialized rogue). The mechanist is the least worried with saves, skills, and hp. And his HD is lower than the cleric.

 

[nittanytbone]

ECL at low levels is a killer. Anyone that plays an ECL at low levels is making a soft, squishy eggshell, ready to be squished.

For casters, you're behind a caster level, which is a big deal. Yes, you can probably get +2 to your casting stat, but still, would you prefer to be throwing Web or Fireball?

For melee classes, it leaves you short on HP and BAB. Even if you can get +2 con, it still won't make up for the lack of a HD: A level 4 barbarian with 16 con has 38 HP on average, whereas a level 3 barbarian with 18 con has only 31.5.

The only class it makes any sense for, maybe, is a skill-monkey. You'll be short about 10 skill points, but some of the special abilities might make sense.

I get ticked off, as a player, if someone plays ECL at low levels, because they are basically making a character that cannot contribute. For example, I had a level 3 game that featured a level 3 cleric, a level 3 ranger, and a pair of level 1 drow (the rogue and the wizard). The drow had to hide in the back, with their <8 HP, at all times; they couldn't fill their class functions ("You're playing a mage? Great! Blow that stuff up!" "Um... I have detect magic?"); and I honestly didn't want to give them a full treasure share as they were so useless. A pair of level 1 warriors would have been more useful.

 

[irdeggman]

I just started an Age of Worms game.

Starting xp = 1200. {I did that to bump them up for survivability and allow LA races. I was also going to use the class level advancement for ECL races greater than +1. It also allows characters to create their own magic items (scrolls) for starting equipment.}

I ended up with a party of:

Female human 2nd level rogue
Male dwarf 1 fighter (with racial substitution level)/1 wizard (wants to be a runecaster)
Male shifter 2nd level druid (with racial substitution level)
Male Aasimar 1st level cleric (wants to be a radiant servant of Pelor)
Male goliath 1st level barbarian (with racial substitution level)
Male goliath 1st level fighter

They are just getting ready to have their first encounter in the Whispering Cairn. Only 1 human in the mix, which I found interesting.


I think this mix will work well, even with 3 LA characters. One is planning on using the UA level buy option later on.

All of the LA characters played to their strengths.

Goliaths get an unbalanced ability adjustment (+4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Dex) so theymake excelent fighters and even better barbarians (racial substitution level barbarian boosts the effect of their rage)

Aasimar get an unbalanced ability adjustment (+2 wisdom, +2 Charisma) and so make excellent clerics - speciallizing in turning undead (I did say it was Age of Worms right).

 

[Patlin]

You have to build a character with a level adjustment *extremely* carefully if you want it to keep up with ECL 0 races, but if you are very carefull you should still be able to contribute. Even slight carelessness when designing the character will leave you completely gimped.

 

[Ry]

What about giving ECL 0 characters 2 or 3 more feats? Would that work?

 

[Moon-Lancer]

I think what is Patlin is saying is that a level 1 character with a +1 la is at disadvantage, not an advantage, when comparing them to a character with 2 levels. I don’t know why you would give the ecl 0 races feats, unless you were balancing ecl 0 alongside ecl 1. If that’s the case 3 feats might be a bit much. I would say 1, maybe 2 feats.

 

[Seeten]

Races with a level adjustment are almost always worse, and low levels is when they are their weakest. If you are giving anyone bonuses, I'd give it to the LA+1 races.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

I once played a anthropermorphic tiger charicter with delayed progression that later got wings and a ton of dex. both from ss.

It was 2 racial hit dice and a +3 level adjustment while everyone else was level 5. He dident get hit much with godly ac, but it was really hard to play with low hp and saves. 19 hit points is hard at level 5 when your the tank. yeah it was selfish now that i look at it. never agian i say. I scraped him for a druid. best choice ever.

although i really liked the charicter...

 

[Ry]

Well, it sounds like I have 2 options:

Start all players at level 1, ECL+1 as they are, ECL+0 with an extra 2 feats.
Start ECL+1 with 1 level of an NPC class, Start ECL +0 with 1 level of a standard class.

 

[Seeten]

Option 1 sounds interesting, Ry. I'd go with that.