Is gaming without map and minis really bad?

[EditorBFG]

A discussion just like this is threatening to hijack another thread, so I am bumping this one. I wish there were some way to merge those other posts into this thread.

The minis debate still rages on.

 

[Mycanid]

Nah, minis aren't necessary at all, although the 3E rules (especially 3.5) do seem to assume the use of a battlemap/minis as the default.

Minis can be helpful, though. I played for years without minis, but started using them with 1E (we used the 1" = 3.33 ft. scale described in the 1E DMG).

Just about sums up my feelings on the subject.

 

[JRR_Talking]

i think minis werent neccessary when there where less rules and therefore less things to think about in combat

Also my brain is now 25 years older than when i started playing and can no longer juggle so many things in my head at once.

if i have a board with the tactical elements and such laid out my limited brain capacity is then available for silly voices and fiendish plans and ploys, rather than trying to remember the location of 10 combatants

john

 

[Odhanan]

Another thing I've been getting away from is a strict 1., 2., 3... order in initiative. Instead, I've been asking for declaration of actions, then rolling for initiative, and then deciding how any declared movement would play out. For example, two groups charging would meet in the middle, rather than the more "chess-like" practice of having one side move, then the other, etc. I've found that this also improves the organic feel of combat.

Cool suggestion/QFT!

 

[boredgremlin]

If your real-life friend's PC is going to die and you are the DM of a game without minis, do you really want to deprive him of the potion that would save his life? Do you really want to be seen as a jerk, when all you have to do is say, "Yeh, you manage to get there in time"?

HOWEVER....if there are minis on the table and they are far apart, what can a DM do? His hands are tied, and nobody thinks he's being mean for letting the PC of his friend bleed to death.

What I'm saying is, If you are a friendly DM, you will help the PCs during battles whenever there is a crisis. And if you are a wicked DM, you will nudge events to hurt PCs whever you can. Players will eventually pick-up on your patterns, and your game will be more predictable (at least more predictable than it would be were it using minis).

If a mini-less DM asserts his desires and emotions do not come into play during battles, he is either mistaken or he is as impassive as Spock. Or he is a stranger at a convention who doesn't care if he sees you again.


Tony M

I agree, as a DM when i am playing without minis if i think the players have done well and i like the group i am more likely to be lenient (in a dramatic, heroic way) and let them do things to a)save a comrade, b)escape danger, or c) kill the enemy in a cool way.

i have DMed both with and without mini's. Usually its an issue of time for me. I run more free-form campaigns and players have a lot of control over where they go and i dont allways feel like its best for the game if i take 10-20 minutes out of time mid-session to sketch out a map. But when there are major fights, fights in areas with lots of tactical options, or fights with a lot of opponents i like to use a battlemat.

As for minis though. I never use them. I dont care if players do but i dont want to spend all the money on them when i can print out a counter and glue it to a piece of cardboard or just use coins and dice. I had way too many 15$ minis busted by a careless player or someone who was inebreated and dropped something to want to continue using them. Terrain is good, expensive but good. And i am slowly growing my selection of terrain pieces, but for the most part the battlemat rarely comes out and even when it does i will still fudge for players (or enemies).... Its just more odvious now.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I've gamed with and without minis since my beginning in the hobby (circa 1977 or so), and I currently mix-'n-match. Most of the time, I don't use minis, but if I have a combat involving a particularly cool or tricky situation, I'll lay them out.

Why?

Using minis take away the whole "Now, where were you when the Fireball went off?" problem, or "How big is this room?", or "How many Orcs can I target with this spell?", or "Don't I have cover in regards to him?" type questions.

Simply put, even if your players didn't understand or pay attention to your description, a map arrayed with minis, etc. makes the tactical situation much clearer than a repetition of the description they didn't understand the first time.

Furthermore, it works both ways. I have had players who had a flash of tactical insight that, were it not for the minis, would have been very difficult for anyone else to visualize what they were doing. The minis allowed them to exercise their brilliance without fear of my (or fellow players') inability to grasp their plan.

So, for me at least, they aren't neccessary, but they are doggone useful.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Is gaming without map and minis bad?

No.

Is gaming without map and minis good?

No.

Gaming without minis is the same as gaming with. It simply is.

 

[William drake]

From the Red Box set:

This game doesn’t have a board, because
you won’t need one. Besides, no
board could have all the dungeons,
dragons, monsters, and characters you
will need!

NO...and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Rp'ing was first about "creativity" and "the imgination" you don't need charts and figures. LIke someone else said: spell out the world, describe things as best as you can without being boring. When combat comes, explain: who, what, where, when and why, and if need be, draw a map. Basic lines and shapes are fine. Its not hard, and, I've been playing for many years, if the game gets so confussing that you need all that extra junk, then you're doing something wrong.

 

[Geoff Watson]

I've DMed with a battlemat and without, and I generally prefer with, as that way I don't have to keep track of everything in my head.
I'll need to be better organised regarding minis/counters/etc though.

Geoff.

 

[Storyteller01]

I haven't for sometime, but one player recently volunteered to start mapping combat. He's blaming his recent 'friendly fire' episodes on not being able to see what's going on.