Is going d20 really worth it?

[Sir Edgar]

So did LOTR and EQ use the SRD or not? It seems like they don't legally need to. WOTC/Hasbro cannot copyright game mechanics from what I understand.

The whole thing seems so tricky in many ways. Like once you go d20 you have to depend on WOTC/Hasbro to continue updating and adding to the SRD.

 

[Ranger REG]

By the way, I'm not a publisher, just curious about the system.

Anyhow, I don't know why you even need the SRD if game mechanics cannot be copyrighted.

Well, the SRD also contains content that are not defined as game mechanics, like the description of a spell.

Is the Lord of the Rings RPG using the SRD?

Nope, because it is an entirely different rules system based on similar concepts. And they're not literally using a d20 in their game, but a 2d6. But in this case, their marketing scheme is based on the LOTR brand label to market their Coda System product.

What about the Everquest RPG? It seems the companies that printed these games used a lot of the game mechanics in 3e D&D and they may have indeed followed the guidelines of the SRD, but did they (legally) have to?

If they're using the content from the SRD verbatim, then yes.

But in addition to using OGC from the SRD or other OGL-based sources, authors can contribute their own OGC and made it available to the public through the license.

Also, about paragraph 15, can you tell me more about it? I don't quite understand the implications of it fully.

The copyright notice simply list the sources of the Open Game Content you use for your product. It also provides a "family tree" of an original OGC that have been modified from one product to another. It also help any publisher who is willing to research what OGC he wants to use.

Also, I don't understand how a certain d20 company put "Vortigern" as its Product Identity. Vortigern is a historical name and doesn't belong to anyone. I guess again it depends on context, but it seems even the name Gandalf which is also a pseudo-historical name can be protected.

Well, if the author can make such distinction, then they can consider it copyright or trademarked. For example while a barbarian named Conan may not be trademarked, the titular character that have graced the pages of Robert E Howard's books can be.

In the above case, the author may have wanted Vortigern to be associated to a particular (iconic) character in his game and/or setting.

 

[HellHound]

Yes, EverQuest references the SRD. It specifically references it in the section 15 of the OGL.

 

[Voadam]

Everquest uses the OGL but not the d20 license. It uses the srd which is OGL.

You cannot copyright ideas, but the expression of ideas can be. My understanding is TSR had a history of initiating litigation over intellectual property infringement and WotC created the OGL and d20 licenses to specifically authorize use of their rules without worrying about crossing legal IP lines. You are not obligated to use either and you can take your legal chances as Mayfair games did if you wish to proceed with D&D directly derived rules without a license.

Most small publishers don't even want the risk of litigation so the licenses are attractive.

 

[Henry]

Sir Edgar:

Simply put, the d20 system trademark license is an insurance against suing. If you follow the contents of the license to the letter, WotC agrees not to take you to court.

While it is true that game rules may not be copyrighted, it would still be possible for Hasbro's lawyers to take a publisher to court, after said publisher refused to cease and desist in their publication. While the publisher could in theory win such a case, most small publishers do not have the fiscal means to fight a protracted court battle. No case pertaining to this law with respect to an RPG has ever been brought to court.

In order to use the material in the SRD, and NOT be prosecuted, you would have to not use any of their trademarks, such as the Dungeons & Dragons name, nor the "d20" name or logo.

With the d20 STL, you can say that your product is compatible with D&D, and that your product requires use of the D&D Player's Handbook. In other words, for willingly giving up the right to publish a complete game, you get both a protection against suing, and access to the large market of D&D players. if you follow the license.

Note that I am not a lawyer, or course, and that all of the above has been gleaned from numerous conversations with various d20 publishers and copyright lawyers who frequent these message boards.

 

[Sir Edgar]

Thanks, everybody, especially Henry for clarifying the legal reasons! All of this is very interesting. I wonder how many d20 companies keep a lawyer on retainer and if so, how do you find an IP lawyer who would be knowledgable on all this??? It seems complicated and yet simple in some ways. I'm sure there's a liaison at Hasbro/WOTC who deals with all the d20 companies and helps them out, right?

 

[jmucchiello]

I'm sure there's a liaison at Hasbro/WOTC who deals with all the d20 companies and helps them out, right?

Depends on what you mean by help. If you mean responds to highly theoretical requests on the ogl-d20-l mailing list, yes there is someone who sometimes clarifies WotC's position.

If you mean legal advice, I ask you this: In who's best interest would advice a WotC lawyer gives benefit? WotC has no reason to pay a lawyer to give a 3rd party any advice. And no one should rely on the advice given by a lawyer paid by someone else.

 

[Gallowglass]

Important Distinctions!!

Thanks, everybody, especially Henry for clarifying the legal reasons! All of this is very interesting. I wonder how many d20 companies keep a lawyer on retainer and if so, how do you find an IP lawyer who would be knowledgable on all this??? It seems complicated and yet simple in some ways. I'm sure there's a liaison at Hasbro/WOTC who deals with all the d20 companies and helps them out, right?

Please be careful: "Dungeons and Dragons" is a Trademark of WotC/Hasbro, you absolutely must have their permission to use it in a commercial product or "in public" i.e. on websites. The D&D Rules indeed cannot be copyrighted (a different thing to a Trademark) but the description of those rules as expressed in their rulebooks, IS very much WotC/hasbro's copyright and again using it raises serious legal issues.

Hence, if you wish to play with WotC/Hasbro property (their various Trademarks), you can if you comply with the d20 System Trademark License. If you want to borrow WotC/Hasbro's forms of expression for the d20 rules (i.e. their copyright), you must comply with the Open game License and refer to the System Reference Document.

Always remember teh distinction between trademark's and Copyright, it's quite important...