Is Hackmaster a joke?
- Thread starter Outlaw
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Sagan Darkside
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Outlaw said:
I consider it a joke due to the way they put out their monster books, but I don't play HM- so I don't really care.
SD
ColonelHardisson
What? Me Worry?
The Hacklopedias are actually pretty good, and have a lot of cool monster ideas and concepts. Unfortunately, there have been many complaints about the 8 volumes, even from HM fans. Kenzer is putting out a one volume monster book for $20 or $25.
Good point about the eight Hacklopedias. Who needs that many monster books for one game?
I'll stick with the good old Monster Manual. And the Liber Bestarius. And the Monsternomicon. And the two Creature Collections. And the Tome of Horrors. And...
Ummm, what was my point again?
(Seriously, I have often wondered if the Hacklopedias had some useful stuff in them. Glad to hear they might be a good source of ideas, even if I can't afford them all right now.)
I'll stick with the good old Monster Manual. And the Liber Bestarius. And the Monsternomicon. And the two Creature Collections. And the Tome of Horrors. And...
Ummm, what was my point again?
(Seriously, I have often wondered if the Hacklopedias had some useful stuff in them. Glad to hear they might be a good source of ideas, even if I can't afford them all right now.)
Beckett
Explorer
ColonelHardisson said:
My only personal experience with an original and hacked version is with Against/Annihilate the Giants. I ran Against for my players ~5 years ago, and I received Annihilate for Christmas. My recollection of Against is of a pretty slim booklet, even though it contained three modules. Bare-bones is the best description I can think of its content. Annihilate is over 100 pages, with plenty of details filled in and fleshed out. In fact, I think an entire floor was added to one of the fortresses.
If Annihilate is the rule rather than the exception, Kenzer just didn't restat these adventures for Hackmaster, they improved them. I think "Don't judge a book by its cover" is the best phrase to remember in regards to Hackmaster.
Orcus
First Post
I like the idea of Hackmaster and I am a Kenzer fan. But the problem with HM is that I already own the 1E books. The only extra stuff in HM is the funny stuff. I dont need to buy those expensive books for gags, for the world's most silly alignment graph (which, I must admit, I laughed at for a half hour), the updated art that humorously depicts the scene just before or after the art in the actual books, etc. I dont need that stuff. So I dont buy the "HM is a great system" thing. It is only if you dont own the 1E books already. I just dont get spending the money on a system I already own.
As for Little Keep being one of the best adventures ever, thats because the original--Keep on the Borderlands--is one of the best adventures ever. It isnt the HM additions that make it better. The changes (detailing the keep and adding some more stuff to the dungeon, and making the minotaur a chick) dont really do much for me, though they were funny.
Clark
As for Little Keep being one of the best adventures ever, thats because the original--Keep on the Borderlands--is one of the best adventures ever. It isnt the HM additions that make it better. The changes (detailing the keep and adding some more stuff to the dungeon, and making the minotaur a chick) dont really do much for me, though they were funny.
Clark
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ColonelHardisson
What? Me Worry?
In fairness, though, Kenzer did more than regurgitate the 1e AD&D books with some jokes. They actually tweaked the classes and added a few, did the same with races, radically changed character creation, added in stuff like honor, the effects of oaths, critical hit charts, etc. Along with the humor, they also added back in a certain warmth and affability that has been missing from RPGs since...well, since Gygax and the 1e DMG. Sometimes RPG books read as drily as a Chilton's car repair book. I like that they took a lot of what Gygax wrote and added to it. That means a lot to me.
Paul L. Ming
First Post
Hiya.
HM isn't a "joke game". As many have pointed out, it is a game system like 1e/2e/houserules...but isn't afraid to poke fun at itself in a sarcastic sort of way. The coolest thing about HM in my mind is it's "duality". Roughly 50% of the HM crowd play it as a 'normal' game system like 1e/2e. The other 50% play it as "Sanctioned", meaning that the parody aspects are in full swing, rules lawyering is of prime importance, and the only thing that matters when the dust settles is how many experience points you get. The strength of the system is proven when you can play such vastly different styles and not break a sweat (rules wise).
The modules that are "revamps" are SO much *more* than simply plugging in HM monsters in place of the original Basic/1e/2e monsters. I only own Quest for the Unknown, Little Keep on the Boarderlands, and now Smackdown the Slavers. All I can tell you is that these puppies are, effectively, new advantures using the old classics as a foundation. Find/buy one, read it, compare it.
In short, HM is more serious about the role-playing aspect of RPG's than 3e (or 1e/2e) ever was. The rules actually *force* players to role-play...otherwise they loose honor and XP. HM is as serious or silly as you want to make it; like 3e (it just takes more work to have a serious game with 3e... ).
HM isn't a "joke game". As many have pointed out, it is a game system like 1e/2e/houserules...but isn't afraid to poke fun at itself in a sarcastic sort of way. The coolest thing about HM in my mind is it's "duality". Roughly 50% of the HM crowd play it as a 'normal' game system like 1e/2e. The other 50% play it as "Sanctioned", meaning that the parody aspects are in full swing, rules lawyering is of prime importance, and the only thing that matters when the dust settles is how many experience points you get. The strength of the system is proven when you can play such vastly different styles and not break a sweat (rules wise).
The modules that are "revamps" are SO much *more* than simply plugging in HM monsters in place of the original Basic/1e/2e monsters. I only own Quest for the Unknown, Little Keep on the Boarderlands, and now Smackdown the Slavers. All I can tell you is that these puppies are, effectively, new advantures using the old classics as a foundation. Find/buy one, read it, compare it.
In short, HM is more serious about the role-playing aspect of RPG's than 3e (or 1e/2e) ever was. The rules actually *force* players to role-play...otherwise they loose honor and XP. HM is as serious or silly as you want to make it; like 3e (it just takes more work to have a serious game with 3e...
).thegreatbuddha
First Post
HackMaster a joke? Let's look at the evidence.
- Shoddy modules and little or no care from its parent company
- Broken (ie, characters can deal out 1000+ damage each without breaking a sweat)
- Designed to appeal to powergamers
Looks to me like anybody who would spend their money on such a system is eithera die-hard powergamer or an idiot. Too bad I'm talking about 3e, the 3rd most broken system ever (After WEG Hero System & WEG d6).
HackMaster=Balanced
3e=Broken
Keep in mind that this is coming from a 3e player who has realized the truth: WotC designed 3e not with the intent of making a good game system, but with the intent of making a Collectible RPG similar to M:tG, only the booster packs cost $30 a pop.
- Shoddy modules and little or no care from its parent company
- Broken (ie, characters can deal out 1000+ damage each without breaking a sweat)
- Designed to appeal to powergamers
Looks to me like anybody who would spend their money on such a system is eithera die-hard powergamer or an idiot. Too bad I'm talking about 3e, the 3rd most broken system ever (After WEG Hero System & WEG d6).
HackMaster=Balanced
3e=Broken
Keep in mind that this is coming from a 3e player who has realized the truth: WotC designed 3e not with the intent of making a good game system, but with the intent of making a Collectible RPG similar to M:tG, only the booster packs cost $30 a pop.
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