Is high randomness good for an RPG?

[Spinachcat]

Is high randomness, convoluted randomness, random randomness good design for an RPG system? Does high randomness make an RPG more fun?

For me, absolutely yes!

Randomness drives a lot of creativity.

For instance, instead of a set 10% chance for something, is it better to roll 1d20 to see what the percentage chance is (and then roll the d%)?

That adds an extra roll...which adds extra time...which slows the game.

Is it good to have a series of charts where rolling on one determines the next chart to roll on?

Depends on the game. Warhammer does that for critical hits and it works great...but crits are big game moments so the slow down adds to the tension.

Is it fun to have a system where a result can be from fantastic to terrible (like "character gains a level" to "character dies") -- like drawing from a deck of many things?

Depends on the game. Works fabulous in OD&D and Tunnels & Trolls, but these games have very fast chargen.

If rolling randomly (straight, no drops or rerolls) for ability scores and hit points is good, is rolling for starting level even better?

I am working on such an idea. The concept is that you roll for Level and the higher the level you start, the less Gifts from the Gods you get and that balances it out. So...do you want to start as a Grizzled Veteran or the Goofy Noob Blessed by the Gawds?

Is a randomly generated dungeon -- random rooms, corridors, monsters, treasure -- more fun than one put together with a plan?

Sometimes. It truly depends on the DM's ability to be inspired by randomness. Waay too often, the "put together with a plan" becomes very dull and repetitive.

Too much "logic" kills the fantasy. That's where random design can help tremendously.

 

[The Ghost]

If rolling randomly (straight, no drops or rerolls) for ability scores and hit points is good, is rolling for starting level even better?

Is a randomly generated dungeon -- random rooms, corridors, monsters, treasure -- more fun than one put together with a plan?

I am going to ignore the rest of your questions as I do not have very well formed thoughts on those issues. These two questions, though, I will comment on.

Rolling abilities and hit points allow me to think about character concepts in a new way. How does a fighter work with minimum hit points? How would he act? Would he be more cautious about entering into combat? Would he be more apt to look for advantageous terrain before fighting? Would he build alliances? Would he use stealth and trickery more often? How about a wizard with a relatively low intelligence? A rogue with low dexterity but high charisma? Randomness places restrictions upon the characters which, to me, creates a more challenging character to play.

Often times, without the random property, I find that my characters all begin to look alike. Which leads them to acting alike. Randomness, in this area, allows me to break out of these comfort zones.

The same thought holds true with dungeon design. If I roll randomly to determine what exists within a dungeon I find that it forces me to be more creative. Why does this dungeon have goblins, mindflayers, and a copper dragon? Are they working in conjunction with one another or against? How do they deal with the basilisk that is wandering around? How do they defend their zones? What sort of obstacles and traps have they placed around their territory?

Again, if I do not do it randomly I find that it is harder to think creatively. I default to a comfort zone of certain creatures engaging in the same tactics over and over again.

 

[kitsune9]

Is high randomness, convoluted randomness, random randomness good design for an RPG system? Does high randomness make an RPG more fun?

For instance, instead of a set 10% chance for something, is it better to roll 1d20 to see what the percentage chance is (and then roll the d%)?

Is it good to have a series of charts where rolling on one determines the next chart to roll on?

Is it fun to have a system where a result can be from fantastic to terrible (like "character gains a level" to "character dies") -- like drawing from a deck of many things?

If rolling randomly (straight, no drops or rerolls) for ability scores and hit points is good, is rolling for starting level even better?

Is a randomly generated dungeon -- random rooms, corridors, monsters, treasure -- more fun than one put together with a plan?

Bullgrit

I don't know if high randomness is a hallmark of a good rpg design, but I've always enjoyed playing games where that's the case, even for the sake of realism or believability. In your examples, the deck is fun, ability scores okay, and random dungeons not so fun unless it's just for a one-shot. For example, I ran a WFRP 1st edition to teach the system to my friends and we did the random dungeon, fought lots of stuff and had a blast.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

I don't like randomness for the sake of randomness either. I don't like 'table-hopscotch' rolling, nor do I like 'you might gain a level but you might die' randomness. I know a great gamer who thinks that random starting level is only realistic and reasonable, and I can see where he's coming from; I mean if you're gonna roll for ability scores and hp why wouldn't you roll for every other stat? But I wouldn't want to play that way.

Random dungeons are all right if nobody wants to DM, or if I just want an absurdist parody of adventure, but generally planning is better.

TS

 

[Umbran]

I'm in the "that depends on the game/campaign/desired feel" camp.

 

[jephlewis]

Is high randomness, convoluted randomness, random randomness good design for an RPG system? Does high randomness make an RPG more fun?

For instance, instead of a set 10% chance for something, is it better to roll 1d20 to see what the percentage chance is (and then roll the d%)?

Is it good to have a series of charts where rolling on one determines the next chart to roll on?

Is it fun to have a system where a result can be from fantastic to terrible (like "character gains a level" to "character dies") -- like drawing from a deck of many things?

If rolling randomly (straight, no drops or rerolls) for ability scores and hit points is good, is rolling for starting level even better?

Is a randomly generated dungeon -- random rooms, corridors, monsters, treasure -- more fun than one put together with a plan?

Bullgrit

It depends;
Personally, I would prefer "not a whole lot of randomness" with the option of lots of randomness; like, a whole bunch of tables and variant rules and stuff. I find I specifically prefer this for class and level style games, like D&D and SWSE.

That way, I can add as much randomness as I want at any given time for any specific circumstance [no adventure planned, didn't flesh out NPC, city generation, etc.]. Is this what you mean?

 

[Dausuul]

I think you are rolling way too many things into a single concept/question, Bullgrit. Your examples are significantly different from each other, and it muddies the meaning of what you're asking.

Agreed.

After some thought, I'd say the best approach in most systems is low randomness with occasional "spikes" of high randomness. A system with high randomness all the time is frustrating to play in, because so much depends on the dice that it's impossible to plan for anything. On the other hand, a system with low randomness all the time gets boring, because nothing unexpected ever happens.

So, I like a system in which things are usually predictable and reliable... but, once in a while there is the possibility of a random event knocking everybody's plans into a cocked hat.

(Although I'm generally a 4E fan, I think this is an area where 4E needs some work. 4E combines excessive "background" randomness, in the form of attack rolls typically having a 50-60% chance to hit, with a lack of "outlier" events that can totally change up an encounter.)

 

[Jasperak]

I answered Other and here's why.

I started playing with BECMI and 1e. That game play style is what got me into playing paper RPGS. However you classify the randomness in those games tells what my answer to the poll would be. As for how good that would be for an RPG, I have spent over $5,000 on D&D products up to around March of 2008 and not a single penny since. I bought WFRPG 2.0 about a month ago though.

 

[Reynard]

It will probably come as a surprise to few that I voted "yes -- randomness is good". However, I have a caveat:

In any given situation in which randomness is a factor, the most important element is that the range of randomness make some sort of sense (what that means depends entirely on the situation). For example, I really like "swingy" combat with the potential for critical hits and fumbles, especially if those things come with neat, iterative charts. roll: A crit! :roll: to the head! :roll: right in the eye! :roll: oooh! blinded for life!) and random encounter tables. However, all the elements in the random range (all the stuff on the charts) needs to make some sort of sense, at least insofar as internal consistency is concerned. Even a Deck of many things is okay, because the Deck is an artifact and its potential range of effect is broad. However, a random encounter chart that included both frost giants and fire salamanders would not be okay, nor would a critical chart that gave apparently equal likelihood to decapitation whether the attacker was using a bow or an axe.

It's the simulationist in me I suppose.

And, as made clear in the AD&D 1E DMG, randomness (or not) is largely in the hands of the DM. If an encounter comes up that makes no sense or hurts the game, there's nothing wrong with rerolling or tossing out the result entirely, or simply using the result as a springboard for creativity. this last thing is I think what randomness really adds to the game: we all tend toward our preferences and can end up in ruts; randomness can pull us out of those ruts and make us reconsider those preferences in ways we never would have considered and improve play.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Randomness -- like so many things in game design -- is better as a tool than as an end in and of itself.

Randomness can do some things that you want. For instance, a magic system that is more random might add mystery and risk to spellcasting -- if there's a chance to have some horrible surge as a result, it makes the thing a little more dangerous, but a little more interesting because of that.

Randomness can also spur creativity. If you randomly determine, say, the night's encounters, that can help you build something off of that randomness.

So to your specific Q's:

For instance, instead of a set 10% chance for something, is it better to roll 1d20 to see what the percentage chance is (and then roll the d%)?

Depends. Is it something I'm going to do occasionally, for excitement, in a niche case, or something I'm going to want to repeat?

Is it good to have a series of charts where rolling on one determines the next chart to roll on?

In general, no. That's more a time consideration than anything else though. It takes too long to roll on cascading charts. Leave this for the videogames (who can use it to awesome and hilarious effect).

Is it fun to have a system where a result can be from fantastic to terrible (like "character gains a level" to "character dies") -- like drawing from a deck of many things?

In general, no. That's a randomness where, in general, it doesn't serve a constructive goal. If you want to go out and have adventures with the same characters week after week, something like that basically makes it so you might not be able to unless you break the rules.

If rolling randomly (straight, no drops or rerolls) for ability scores and hit points is good, is rolling for starting level even better?

Again, this is a place where you generally want consistency, so randomness doesn't serve a constructive purpose here. The foundations of your character's abilities should be fairly predictable and consistent, in order to facilitate a game where those abilities are used a lot.

Is a randomly generated dungeon -- random rooms, corridors, monsters, treasure -- more fun than one put together with a plan?

Here's where you can gain a good amount of mileage out of randomness. Chaos in a dungeon is generally a good thing to have, and can launch you in some interesting directions, but you don't want to over-do it.