D&D 5E Is Intimidate the worse skill in the game?

[Bacon Bits]

Worst skill? No, I would put Slight of Hand and Animal Handling below Intimidation, and probably History as well.

I think the problem is that Deception, Persuasion, and Intimidation shouldn't all be Cha-based skills. I think Intimidation could easily be merged with the other two skills -- use Deception if you're bluffing, otherwise use Persuasion -- but I think either Deception or Persuasion needs to be an Int-based skill by default because those two skills are still too similar on their own.

Truthfully, however, I think the optional rule for skills with alternate abilities should simply be the rule. Sometimes Athletics requires Con, sometimes Acrobatics requires Str, sometimes Persuasion could involve a logical argument, sometimes Deception is done through sheer cunning, sometimes Stealth requires Int, etc.. Yes, I grok that the simple attribute pairing rule makes the game easier to play, but the current breakdown isn't very good. What should happen is that a character should say what they want to accomplish, say how they're going to do it, and then the DM assigns an attribute, a skill proficiency, and a DC.

I don't think knowledge skills should be like normal skills at all. I think each class and background should list the types of knowledge the character knows or can choose from and they should otherwise work like languages and tools do. You might need to add 2-3 more skills for that to work well, but I don't think they're quite deserving of being first class skills. Not even Arcana.

 

[Krachek]

I think DM should sometime setup npc that cant be intimitaded or persuaded or deceived.

 

[tommybahama]

This can be resolved by the DM only asking for an ability check and then letting the player apply the relevant skill or tool proficiency, according to the player's understanding of the approach described.

I like your approach, but I would add that there is a podcast where Jeremy Crawford states that there are passive scores for all abilities/skills (not just perception/investigation) and these represent the floor for your success on a skill check. The die rolls is to see if you succeed beyond this floor. It avoids the nonsense of a highly skilled character failing at something relatively easy.

 

[Oofta]

I set up situations to make different skills useful. Depending on who you're talking to and the situation, intimidate can be far more useful. That cowardly goblin is going to be really suspicious if you try to butter them up because they know better so intimidate would be a far lower DC.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Do you like the term "Influence" for the skill if we rolled them all into one?

There are many times when I think of the time/training required for one skill is not remotely what it would be for another, and "combining" skills would help that. I know a number of people think Athletics and Acrobatics could be put into one skill, used either off of STR or DEX (or even CON) as the situation demands.

If we're going that route, the variant rule where you just get proficiency in ability checks for a couple of abilities (rather than specific skills) deserves another look.

You'd be down to athletics, sneaking, endurance, knowledge, perception, and influence.

 

[TheAlkaizer]

Worst skill? No, I would put Slight of Hand and Animal Handling below Intimidation, and probably History as well.

I agree with Animal Handling; I could also agree that Sleight of Hand is very situational. But history comes up all the time in my games. I'd even go as far as say that it's one of the skills that come up the most. It's a reliable way for my players to access internalized knowledge.

 

[DND_Reborn]

If we're going that route, the variant rule where you just get proficiency in ability checks for a couple of abilities (rather than specific skills) deserves another look.

You'd be down to athletics, sneaking, endurance, knowledge, perception, and influence.

And along those lines I have thought about just such things and using the option in the DMG for proficiency in broad ability checks and not in just individual skills. I know some players like more differentiation between skills, and others prefer broader interpretations.

 

[NotAYakk]

If we're going that route, the variant rule where you just get proficiency in ability checks for a couple of abilities (rather than specific skills) deserves another look.

You'd be down to athletics, sneaking, endurance, knowledge, perception, and influence.

That also points out how Con is sort of a crappy stat; its dominance at saving throws and HP nonwithstanding.

Athletics should include Endurance really.

Athletics
Sneaking
Knowledge
Perception
Influence

those are all about as useful.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I am fine with intimidation being a separate skill but the divide between persuasion and deception seems far too blurry to me. Persuasion might often involves exaggeration and half-truths and it is pretty unclear when it should become deception instead. I'd like to eliminate deception and keep persuasion as a skill with which you try to get people like and trust you regardless of the truth of what you say, while intimidation is about inciting fear instead of trust.

Good point. Also given how intimidation is often linked to STR instead of CHA, keeping it separate might be better...

 

[iserith]

I like your approach, but I would add that there is a podcast where Jeremy Crawford states that there are passive scores for all abilities/skills (not just perception/investigation) and these represent the floor for your success on a skill check. The die rolls is to see if you succeed beyond this floor. It avoids the nonsense of a highly skilled character failing at something relatively easy.

In that podcast, they are talking in the context of combat where that ruling is the only place that makes sense (since it relates to the rule of characters usually being alert to danger in a combat and the Search action where passive Perception score would be the floor). There's no way to go from the rules of the game to the ruling you mention above outside of trying to find a hidden creature in combat.