Is it ever a good idea to hit the party?

[Holy Bovine]

Obviously I've been thinking on this matter a fair bit lately and I think I've nailed down the reason why it bothers me so much that someone would target a party member.

Whether or not a valid tactic, a part of me assumes that this is a group activity and therefore certain social rules apply. As a group, you're 'in it together' so that part of me feels... betrayed I guess is the closest word I can think of to the feeling it invokes.

So even though it may be an intelligent tactic and even though the math might work in the groups favour, there's this core part of me that is angered by this behaviour. Logic, reason and rationality have little to do with it, it's simply an emotion evoked by another person's actions. I can't help but feel that way.

I think there might be something more to this if your fellow players are getting you into their AoE attacks. Have you tried changing deodorant?

 

[Kzach]

It all depends on how you look at it, though. "Taking one for the team" is part of being "in it together," too.

If you were in a military unit under heavy fire with half your unit split between two defensive positions and the enemy was gaining on one of those positions would you really want your buddies at the other position to drop a hand grenade on you just to hit the incoming enemies?

It'd be seen as either a betrayal or a major error in judgement, not as 'taking one for the team'.

 

[Holy Bovine]

It all depends on how you look at it, though. "Taking one for the team" is part of being "in it together," too.

We have a running joke in one of our games about the wizard who couldn't seem to keep party members out of his AoE attacks. It happened 2-3 times but we never let him forget it simply because he insisted it was a good move at the time. Just as I insisted that my criting him with my dragonborn breath attack to kill a bunch of minions that had surrounded him was a good move too (I missed 3 out of 4 of them btw ).

I do, however, in the same game tell the sorcerer to drop his fire attacks on me if he has too - I actually have some resistance to that!

 

[Holy Bovine]

If you were in a military unit under heavy fire with half your unit split between two defensive positions and the enemy was gaining on one of those positions would you really want your buddies at the other position to drop a hand grenade on you just to hit the incoming enemies?

It'd be seen as either a betrayal or a major error in judgement, not as 'taking one for the team'.

-5 points for bringing in real world stuff. You know perfectly well a hand grenade in the real world is 10x as dangerous as a scorching burst is in the D&D world. And the D&D character can be patched up in less than 6 seconds.

 

[catsclaw227]

Accidental crits are the one thing that keeps my party from doing it more often, but they seem to have come to grips with the fact that occasionally, they will hit another player with an area burst or close blast attack. And the other players are OK, as long as they are notified in advance. A bit of metagaming? Yes..... sadly, but I accept it as knowledge of each others threshold for pain and suffering.

I am OK with it as a DM.

 

[Kzach]

-5 points for bringing in real world stuff. You know perfectly well a hand grenade in the real world is 10x as dangerous as a scorching burst is in the D&D world. And the D&D character can be patched up in less than 6 seconds.

You're not understanding my argument.

I'm talking about the emotion such actions produce, not about real world vs. fantasy verisimilitude and rules mechanics.

It's that same feeling of, "Wtf?" And as I said, it's possibly neither rational or logical, it's simply a feeling that is invoked by this type of behaviour.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

If you were in a military unit under heavy fire with half your unit split between two defensive positions and the enemy was gaining on one of those positions would you really want your buddies at the other position to drop a hand grenade on you just to hit the incoming enemies?

It'd be seen as either a betrayal or a major error in judgement, not as 'taking one for the team'.

Tossing grenades is a bad example since they have pretty limited range and there should be no need to toss them on you unless you are in hand to hand with the opposing force. However, I have read of units calling artillery fire on their own position to prevent that position being overwhelamed.

In the Madist war in at least one occasion the Sudanese broke a British infantry square and the Brits turned the rear rank on the opposite wall and fired into the melee at the breach (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Abu_Klea)
Not quite the same as dropping a fireball but in the real world more dangerous to the men in melee.

 

[Theroc]

If you were in a military unit under heavy fire with half your unit split between two defensive positions and the enemy was gaining on one of those positions would you really want your buddies at the other position to drop a hand grenade on you just to hit the incoming enemies?

It'd be seen as either a betrayal or a major error in judgement, not as 'taking one for the team'.

I suppose my logical imperatives override my general empathy on this one.

The danger involved to the character's is what I find important. To make an analogy I feel is slightly more apt and less obviously condemning, I'd say "If you were in a military unit under heavy fire, and your unit was split between two defensive positions, and the enemy was advancing towards a city that wasn't yet finished evacuating the innocents, would you want your allies to watch the enemies crush your divided group and destroy the city, or would you want to call in an airstrike on your general location and pray you don't get killed in the bombing and can mop up the remnants?"

The adventurer's (generally) are doing these adventures to help people. And even if there are no innocents at stake, as a human being, if people I cared about (the party who I am 'in it together with') were going to die if I worried about my own safety, in a world where resurrection is possible, I'd probably say, "Blow me to kingdom come! You all owe me a year's supply of beer!" Or something, sacrificing myself for the betterment of my group.

It can be a somewhat personal thing. Myself, if I was asked permission beforehand, I might just okay it, if I could analyze and agree it was appropriate. Even if In Character, my PC wants to choke the person who did it until their eyeballs pop out. I'd simply inform the person how my character would react in character, and say, "I agree this is the best place to hit, and will drastically ease party resources. Do it."

But that's just me. And some people would say I'm a powergamer... which I find somewhat ironic, since most of my 'RPG' experience is almost entirely roleplaying with no 'mechanics' at all. (Which got frustrating when other players would try and fight me... it was like playing Cops and Robbers as a kid... 'I shot you!' 'Nuh uh! I shot you first!' 'nuh uh!')

Hm... I'm up too late, and now I'm rambling. [/ramble]