Is it harder to be a DM in a high-level campaign?

[Kalendraf]

From my experience, it does become noticeably harder to DM at higher levels. There are a number of factors that contribute to this.

First of all, at low levels, characters tend to be very generic. They have limited resources, and only minor differences in their skill points, feats or other abilities. As a DM, it is usually easy to predict how a low level group will handle a specific encounter. And it is tends to be easier to design balanced encounters and adventures for low-level groups as a result.

As the characters become higher level, they become much more diverse in terms of abilities, skills, feats and equipment. In more and more cases, they'll surprise you in how they handle supposedly difficult situations. They will have abilities, spells or items that easily overcome various hurdles that you as a DM were not expecting. This is good for the players, but sometimes a big letdown for the DM. For example, the climax battle against the big, bad demon ends on the 1st round of combat via a one-shot power-attacked critical hit smite from the Paladin. The session is cut short as the prime nemesis dies a few hours before you expected, and you have nothing else prepared for the night.

On the flip side, the CR ratings of monsters and EL's of encounters seem to be less predictable at the higher levels. I've seen supposedly easy EL7 encounters kill characters in 10th level parties, and I've seen the same 10th level party plow thru an EL13 like a hot knife thru butter. There's a risk as DM to overestimate what a party can handle, and this takes experience to judge. Until then, expect a few character deaths along the way.

Another problem at higher levels is that characters gain so many options that even single rounds of combat can begin to take a very long time to resolve. With multiple attacks per round, multiple feats coming into action, and spells that will require cracking open the book to decide exactly how they work in various situations, the game can really drag out. That can make the game more difficult to DM with so much happening in a single round to keep track of.

If you want practice DM'ing at higher levels, I suggest trying a one-shot adventure. You could try making it yourself, or buying one or maybe get lucky and find one for free online. There's no real harm in a one-shot adventure of doing something wrong, and it's probably going to be a learning experience for you and your players. After you get the hang of it, DM'ing across low to high levels should now be easier to handle.

 

[Fenes 2]

I currently DM a weekly level 14 campaign (as well as a level 12 campaign), and I can only manage it (and still have fun) by limiting the options of the PCs. No teleport, no divinations by the PCs (although there are visions etc by NPCs and PCs alike), few (but powerful) magic items, no magic shops. No raise dead etc. If the PCs had all those options I could scrap about half my adventure ideas, and preparing the remaining adventures would be a nightmare. I did that once in a 2E campaign that reached about level 18 with a wizard, a cleric and a psionist (in addition to a standard load of magic items), and I spent most of the preparation time on ways to prevent each of the "game ending powers" the different casters had from solving the adventure in 5 minutes (or killing the BBEG in 1 round).

I have to add though that I don't design adventures to challenge players, but PCs. I don't use puzzles, I don't expect my players to "stay on their toes" or "play it smart", nor do I expect my players to solve an adventure. I only expect them to roleplay their PCs (which means that they can ask me for pointers/solutions/possibilities anytime). The way they play their PCs, the way the different PCs and NPCs interact is what my adventures center on. (Last evening the double of a PC, which the PC had imitated once before, appeared, and caused great confusion among both PCs and NPCs alike, the player having fun playing the two characters and interacting with the rest of the group until the two met.)

I seldom use linear adventures, usually I just sketch the NPCs and goals, and a few likely locations the PCs will probably visit, and then list a number of problems, encounters and possible solutions.

 

[Dragonblade]

I recently DMed a 21st level game and have DMed high level before. I have found that several things are true.

Certain spells in the game are "broken". I don't mean broken in the PC has too high an AC or does too much damage, I mean broken in plot destroying, game breaking ways.

For example, I have removed all Detect Alignment magic. I have removed all Scrying. I have removed all Commune and Legend lore type spells. Teleport and all forms of Planar Travel magic require a will save or bad things happen. I have removed Wind Walk. I have changed invisibility so that you still get all the bonuses it provides but you look like a predator and you can be seen and targeted in combat. I have also removed all Raise Dead and Resurrection spells from the game.

I give players a certain number of Fate points that whenever they fail a save that would otherise kill them or do something really nasty to them, they can spend a Fate point to avoid the effect. This helps compensate the players for my taking away Raise dead magic. With all the save or die spells and abilities of monsters, its obvious that D&D combat is partially balanced with the assumption that the PCs can come back from death. But for flavor reasons I don't like that so I had to rebalance the game with something in return for taking those spells out.

I let the players build powerful characters and they can commission magic items or make them themselves if they need them. Raw power such as high AC, SR, lots of HP, good Attack bonus, etc. are not a problem for me. I can just slap levels and magic on monsters and bad guys and they are good to go.

But when players need to know something, they should research. When they need to go someplace, they should travel there. When players need to discover the layout of the bad guys fortress or follow someone they need to actually scout or shadow the NPC in question.

I don't like spells that can be used to break plots apart. Also with Scry and Teleport it becomes hard to justify the PCs own survival. If the PCs can Scry the darklord and teleport in and assassinate him in the privy, then the darklord can do the same to them (and would). Nor should they be able to use Detect Evil as some sort of bad guy detector.

They still have dimension door, and fly and all those other nifty spells and those don't bother me a bit. They can even toss down maximized, empower, heightened 20d6 fireballs and thats fine.

But dammit, a murder mystery isn't a murder mystery if you can Raise the victim. A vampire can't masquerade as a local lord if Detect Evil makes him glow like a Christmas tree at night, etc. And PC death has no emotional impact if life is just a spell away.

 

[Drakmar]

One of the tricks I have found is that you don't even have to make an adventure. You just have to make the world.. All you have to do, is know what is happening in the world, and then tell them when they ask, and try and think of the geo-polictical rammifications. I played in a game where over the course of 26 years game time, my character became a dragon (that was his driving goal). In the process he destroyed a Lich King and his army, overthrew another countries rightful king and put in a "Puppet", founded a magocracy/dictatorship of his own in a country he raised from the bottom of the ocean floor, and a few other little things. And that was done at the high levels. And he was able to do it because of the contacts he had made at the lower levels. And the DM didn't have to make adventures after a while, because I would go out and make them myself.

 

[Plane Sailing]

The PC's I DM for are now ranging from 8th-11th level.

One of the things that I have found is increasingly difficult in high level play is avoiding killing PC's. That might seem strange (and dramatically different to James McMurrays experience - indeed, different to the guidelines in the DMG!) but what I've found is that the -1 to -10hp "dying zone" is too small in high level play.

When the party were 1st-6th level, the kinds of threats they were facing often took characters into the "dying" range, but there was still time for last minute desperate attempts to heal them. Now though, the kind of foes which they face can easily deal 30pts damage in blow (more on a critical), which can take a character from full hit points to all dead in one swing!

While there are potential solutions to this problem in spell selection for instance (e.g. "all wizards learn invisibility/fly/stoneskin ASAP) that can lead to a stale and samey game IMO. I rather like it when wizards decide to plough a different furrow.

Cheers

 

[Derulbaskul]

Derul, that's... bizarre. I've never seen players who hate magic before.
(snip)

Actually, the real problem is that they're too lazy to expand their knowledge of the rules. Anyway, I've been DMing them in another campaign with "better" players and they're now learning that their two 22nd "uber-warriors" could possibly be defeated by the five 11th level characters in the other campaign due to the clever use of spells.

Of course, by stating that, I have just disclosed how much I have played nursemaid over the course of this campaign....

(Edited part)

The conclusion I've come to is this: at high levels, the game becomes even more of a partnership between/amongst the DM and the players. ALL have to increase their level of preparation and participation else it doesn't work, or at least it doesn't work as well as it should.

Cheers
D

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I recently DMed a 21st level game and have DMed high level before. I have found that several things are true.

Certain spells in the game are "broken". I don't mean broken in the PC has too high an AC or does too much damage, I mean broken in plot destroying, game breaking ways.

For example, I have removed all Detect Alignment magic. I have removed all Scrying. I have removed all Commune and Legend lore type spells. Teleport and all forms of Planar Travel magic require a will save or bad things happen. I have removed Wind Walk. I have changed invisibility so that you still get all the bonuses it provides but you look like a predator and you can be seen and targeted in combat. I have also removed all Raise Dead and Resurrection spells from the game.

I give players a certain number of Fate points that whenever they fail a save that would otherise kill them or do something really nasty to them, they can spend a Fate point to avoid the effect. This helps compensate the players for my taking away Raise dead magic. With all the save or die spells and abilities of monsters, its obvious that D&D combat is partially balanced with the assumption that the PCs can come back from death. But for flavor reasons I don't like that so I had to rebalance the game with something in return for taking those spells out.

I let the players build powerful characters and they can commission magic items or make them themselves if they need them. Raw power such as high AC, SR, lots of HP, good Attack bonus, etc. are not a problem for me. I can just slap levels and magic on monsters and bad guys and they are good to go.

But when players need to know something, they should research. When they need to go someplace, they should travel there. When players need to discover the layout of the bad guys fortress or follow someone they need to actually scout or shadow the NPC in question.

I don't like spells that can be used to break plots apart. Also with Scry and Teleport it becomes hard to justify the PCs own survival. If the PCs can Scry the darklord and teleport in and assassinate him in the privy, then the darklord can do the same to them (and would). Nor should they be able to use Detect Evil as some sort of bad guy detector.

They still have dimension door, and fly and all those other nifty spells and those don't bother me a bit. They can even toss down maximized, empower, heightened 20d6 fireballs and thats fine.

But dammit, a murder mystery isn't a murder mystery if you can Raise the victim. A vampire can't masquerade as a local lord if Detect Evil makes him glow like a Christmas tree at night, etc. And PC death has no emotional impact if life is just a spell away.

Without wanting to offend you - what use is high level playing if you do not get access to these special features? If all I can do is deal a bit more damage or maybe fly a bit faster than at lower levels, why bother at all with high level play? Just for the numbers?

Certainly, all these divinations, legend lores, scryings, teleports and so on are really a challenge to handle. I have problems with it myself. But why should a 20th level character still have problems to figure out a murder-scenario? Maybe it is part of the callenge to really create new kind of stories, that don`t need to foil certain abilities, but to use or require them!

"Why couldn`t we fight the great Demon Lord at 5th level? We already could throw Fireball and swing our swords then, couldn`t we?" - Obviously you couldn`t because his CR was to high. But ingame, the reason might be because you were unable to figure out where he really was, and even if you knew, you weren`t able to planeshift/teleport there...
(This is probably a weak example for an interesting high level plot, I admit )

If you want to let characters solve murder puzzles, maybe do them at lower levels. If you want to have the city leader being a vampire, maybe use misdirection/nondetectin/Ring of Mind Shielding or Mind Blank, or do it at early levels, where no one has the abilities to foil this.

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Enceladus]

____

 

[Fenes 2]

Re: Teeth grinding

I currently DM a weekly level 14 campaign (as well as a level 12 campaign), and I can only manage it (and still have fun) by limiting the options of the PCs.

So its all about you?

If I am speaking about my experiences, yes, then it is all about me, since I can't speak about other gaming groups I don't know about.

If I am the one preparing 2 adventures each week, creating NPCs, plots, hooks, opportunities etc, then yes, it is all about me. I can't speak for others, but as long as I spend 4 to 10 hours a week just preparing adventures so that all my players can have fun for 10 hours a week, then I better have fun doing it, since I don't get paid for it.

I hope no one is seriously suggesting that a DM should not have fun DMing, just as long as the player have fun.

If the PCs had all those options I could scrap about half my adventure ideas, and preparing the remaining adventures would be a nightmare.

How is this their problem?

Very easy to answer: If I have to scrap half my adventure ideas, then I have to scrap half my adventures - which means there will be only half the adventures left to run - which in turn means the variety of the adventures decreases.

If I have to prepare even longer for a single session, odds are I
a) don't prepare as well as I could, due to time contraits or
b) run less adventures, resulting in less game sessions for the players.

I could even
c) stop that campaign and start a lower-level one despite the fact that the players would like to continue playing theri favorite characters, since I don't have any fun anymore MDing.

See where they may have a problem?

Do you have access to teleport, Raise dead etc.?

No. While I sometimes run PrCs that I don't allow to players, I generally don't use spells I don't allow to players. Won't find my Red Wizards teleporting all over the place - although they may use a portal network discovered in ancient ruins during adventure, which in turn the players may destroy/guard/take over. You won't find NPCs coming back from the dead due to resurrection - although several foes and even former allies came back as undead, often in the service of necromancers or fiends.

 

[Enceladus]

See where they may have a problem?

Ah, everyone has thier own way of going about doing things.

Try an adventure (a one shot maybe) where everyone has access to all of the stuff you omit and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised that its not as bad as you think it is.