D&D 4E Is it me or are 4E modules just not...exciting?

[Dannager]

Personally I find that little bits of colour like that can add a lot to an adventure, if used in moderation as seasoning. I find it can really bring an adventure to life if I know what the goblins are doing when they're *not* fighting the PCs. Descriptions need to be kept brief though, and Paizo if anything tends to too much detail; in particular too much text to wade through before the actual adventure starts. Much better to start with action and drop in background info as needed, this makes both reading & DMing much easier.

Agreed. I have no problem with added details and what I've referred to as window-dressing; one of the very sorry limitations of a print media standard is that editorial decisions have to be made about things to cut for the sake of meeting a page count (as a side note, I can't wait for the day when the industry distributes solely in electronic form, and having content cut due to page limitations is a thing of the past). If something needs to be cut, though, make it something that I'm not going to wish I had halfway through the adventure. I certainly can't say that something useful was cut in favor of pickle thieving goblins, but it's an example of the sort of thing I'd trade in a heartbeat.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

That scenario is taken straight out of the very first Pathfinder AP adventure, Burnt Offerings.

So, uh, relevant and has exactly that kind of thing in it.

Yeah, I see, you GOT ME! There's an adventure with a silly piece of irrelevant fluff in it. I guess that totally proves your point, I surrender! All the story and characterization in these APs is a waste of time and space. Wow was I set straight.

 

[Dannager]

Yeah, I see, you GOT ME! There's an adventure with a silly piece of irrelevant fluff in it. I guess that totally proves your point, I surrender! All the story and characterization in these APs is a waste of time and space. Wow was I set straight.

Thank you for not taking my one example and having a hilarious, sarcastic over-reaction to it that completely blows past the point I was trying to make.

I wasn't trying to "get you". When I brought up the pickle thieves, I was actually assuming that you'd be familiar already, since we were talking about Paizo adventures and Burnt Offerings is arguably the best-known adventure they've done. It was used for the purpose of illustrating a point. Maybe next time don't dismiss an example as irrelevant and hyperbolic so easily. It's not my fault you ended up with egg on your face, there.

And, of course, the thrust of my point wasn't that story and characterization are a waste of space (as much as you apparently want that to be my point), but rather that adventures need to be designed and written as tools to facilitate play first and as stories designed to be read second. As long as we live in an era of print media and page count restrictions (and it looks like we still have a few more years on that clock) we have to accept that editorial priorities are necessary, and that those priorities have to have their eyes on the prize.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Thank you for not taking my one example and having a hilarious, sarcastic over-reaction to it that completely blows past the point I was trying to make.

Hehe, we can all make silly.

Really, I don't think detailing the pickle stealing habits of goblins does much for an adventure. I just think that isn't really the typical fare you see in Paizo APs. The stuff in the ones I've read seems relevant and useful. I don't think the 'delve' format adventures that WotC puts out are bad because they often have fairly pointless encounters either.

I think both formats have their strong points. I don't see any reason they can't live happily together in the same product is all. WotC could afford to remove the dullest and most pointless encounter from each of its adventures and AT LEAST use that same page space to tell us a bit more about the major NPCs. Likewise Paizo IMHO could cut back the word count on some of its stuff a bit and say give us some nice encounter maps here and there.

Honestly, one of the major reasons I don't like running modules at all is simply that I don't think most of them really seem to give me a good feel for and logical basis for the adventure. There are exceptions now and then. I think they could all be improved. Guess I'll have to put my money where my mouth is, eh? hehe.

 

[Dannager]

Really, I don't think detailing the pickle stealing habits of goblins does much for an adventure. I just think that isn't really the typical fare you see in Paizo APs.

It might not be, but it was the example that sprung to mind. There are other, less egregious cases of largely unnecessary fluff, but they don't lurk in the back of the brain in quite the same way.

The stuff in the ones I've read seems relevant and useful. I don't think the 'delve' format adventures that WotC puts out are bad because they often have fairly pointless encounters either.

I think both formats have their strong points. I don't see any reason they can't live happily together in the same product is all. WotC could afford to remove the dullest and most pointless encounter from each of its adventures and AT LEAST use that same page space to tell us a bit more about the major NPCs. Likewise Paizo IMHO could cut back the word count on some of its stuff a bit and say give us some nice encounter maps here and there.

I think I agree with you. Although, frankly, I get the feeling that WotC probably already removes the dullest encounter (or two, or three) from their adventures before they put together a final draft, in much the same way that I know Paizo already cuts paragraph after paragraph of non-essential or redundant information from their adventures.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Yeah, I think they could afford to cut one more, at least from the adventures I've read. Seems many (if not most) DMs are already dropping some. Honestly I'm not sure if it is a matter of not appreciating those encounters or just that for a LOT of tables running an adventure with 20 or so encounters in it is just infeasible as the runtime stretches too long.

 

[Aegeri]

What if my character is a pickle salesman? Then the goblins stealing pickles could be deadly serious business.