Is it "metagaming" to remind a player their power works on a miss?

[wayne62682]

This came up last night and, quite frankly, annoyed the heck out of me. We were in combat with a group of trolls (we're about 2/3 through of King of the Trollhaunt Warrens) and our wizard cast Acid Arrow on a troll; she rolls and misses, and was about to end her turn when I reminded her that it does half damage on a miss; the DM points out that this is metagaming since my Dragonborn Fighter wouldn't know that (which is nonsense anyways, since I've seen her cast the spell before). I argue that it's not metagaming to point out the rules of the game to a player, since the character would know their own powers (the player is a little forgetful). DM says no they wouldn't, and if you forget something then oh well, your character forgets it too.

This seems totally ridiculous to me. I see nothing wrong in saying "Hey remember that your power does "x" if you miss" to another player if they forget; I understand the DM's POV though because the other players were all totally new to D&D (we've been playing for about a year now) and they need to learn the rules, but to call this metagaming seems like it's a rather strange definition. I always thought metagaming was referencing the rules of the game in-game (e.g. "That dragon can't be too hard; the DM wouldn't throw a monster that tough at us right now"), not reminding to another PLAYER how a spell they don't use often works.

 

[Nikosandros]

I agree with you. This isn't about one character saying something to another one. This is you, as a player, reminding another player about the rules. Besides, it's not like the half damage on a miss is something that needs to be activated, it's automatic and not applying is in violation of the rules. As a DM, if I remember it, I always remind players about such things.

 

[RangerWickett]

First off, I agree. Metagaming is when characters treat the adventure like they know it's a game, rather than treating it as a real thing. In fact, with that definition, having the acid not burn the troll because the player forgot is actually more metagaming. However, if I you would prefer not to have a repeat, I don't think that's what you should focus on.

I'd suggest you pick some time outside the game to talk to your DM about this. Don't frame it as a metagame argument, because then you'll just get into a semantic argument about what is or isn't metagaming.

Instead, say that in your opinion, the point of a game is to have fun, and you think it's more fun to be able to help your fellow players out when they forget something. After all, unless your group is full of hard-core wargamers who thrive on challenging tactical situations, D&D is not supposed to have the players competing against the DM. The DM will enjoy himself more if he focuses on distributing fun, rather than trying to 'beat' the PCs.

You're playing with friends (I hope). If a group of friends go on a day hike, no one should cry foul when friend A reminds friend B to put on some sun screen. It's not cheating; it's just being helpful.

 

[Jack99]

Please tell your DM that he just made the top10 of poor DM rulings of the month.

 

[wayne62682]

Please tell your DM that he just made the top10 of poor DM rulings of the month.

Heh... well I understand where he's coming from - the other three players tend to forget rules and don't really read what their characters can do; it tends to hurt their tactical choices because they'll do silly things like use Icy Rays on a monster in melee or with ranged attacks (i.e. it doesn't matter if they're Immobilized) or move to an position where line of sight is blocked; so they should be learning the rules.

I just disagree with getting heat for reminding them of that, or saves, or similar things.

 

[Nifft]

DM says no they wouldn't, and if you forget something then oh well, your character forgets it too.

DM is being a jerk. The rules are complicated, and it's easy to forget stuff.

When I'm the DM, I remind players of things to their advantage (and sometimes, with an evil chuckle, to their disadvantage). When I'm a player, I remind other players and the DM of things they might have missed... including ongoing damage, which is seldom to the party's advantage.

I'd rather lose than win by cheating.

I always thought metagaming was referencing the rules of the game in-game (e.g. "That dragon can't be too hard; the DM wouldn't throw a monster that tough at us right now"), not reminding to another PLAYER how a spell they don't use often works.

This is more in line with how I see "metagaming".

Cheers, -- N

 

[Doug McCrae]

It's not metagaming.

 

[tenkar]

It's metagaming to know the rule and leave its effect out IMO. Just becuse the player forgets a rule doesnt mean the gaming world forgets it. In any case, I'm sure if the rule forgotten benefitted the player by its omission the DM would have made sure it was used.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Yeah, I agree, that isn't metagaming in any real sense of the term.

Metagaming is using out of character knowledge as in character knowledge, which this is clearly not (it doesn't even make sense; does the arrow vanish just because the player forgot?). If the player forgot that her invisibility spell ends at the end of her turn, would the DM let her remain invisible for another round? (I think not.)

Rules should be enforced impartially or the RPG devolves into a rules lawyering metagame between DM and players. D&D isn't a competitive game. I'm just as likely to point out to my players something they forget that is to their advantage as something that isn't, and they do the same for me.

As to learning the rules, if the players haven't cracked open the books to study after a year, it's not especially likely that "playing hardball" will make them start now. IME, all this sort of behavior will do is engender hard feelings. It may be a pain, but if the players are reminded of something often enough (like the miss effect on Acid Arrow) it's likely that they'll start to remember it sooner or later. Also keep in mind that some people view the game less "seriously" than others, and may not be interested in memorizing half the PHB just so they can have fun on a game night with their friends.

YMMV.

 

[Mallus]

It's not metagming, it's courtesy.

Also, there's nothing wrong with metagaming. It's the thing we are all actually doing; ie, playing a game. Pretending that we're not, in fact, playing a game is merely a technique some people use to get more enjoyment out of the game.