Is it "metagaming" to remind a player their power works on a miss?

[blargney the second]

There's some good advice in this thread. The main thing is that your DM seems to have his own notions of table etiquette that hasn't been coordinated with the players. I think a good talk out of game should sort it all out and get everybody on the same page.
-blarg

 

[malraux]

I can see the goal of not talking in game mechanics terms to help aid immersion in the situation. IE, instead of "Don't for get that you have a +1 to AC from the Cleric's Priest Shield power" saying "Take heart, laddie, Thoradin's protection be upon ye." Either way, you do need some way to communicate game mechanics at the table. If the DM isn't going to allow any sort of communication between party members, then yes, he is being a jerk. It personally try to combine the two when possible; giving the in character and game mechanics version of what I'm trying to say.

See also Dragon 375: Game Transparency

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

....What?! Are you ALLOWED to speak out of character during session?

If your turn in combat ended and you declared, "I need to take a leak," would your DM rule that your character drops his trousers?

There is no understanding the DM's perspective on this. You were clearly speaking out of character, and like other people said, it's MORE metagamey to rule a power doesn't work as listed because the player forgot. You must be a lot more tolerant than me. I would not let bs like that go.

 

[CubeKnight]

Start giving your character bonuses that he shouldn't actually get.

When the DM tells you "no", look him in the eye and reply... "My character wouldn't know that the Cleric's power only works on a hit, so I get the +5."

That makes exactly as much sense.

Cheers, -- N

/agrees

 

[vagabundo]

This seems like a DM who has too much emotional investment in his NPCs/Monsters.

Bad call, man, really bad call...

I'd often remind players about this sort of thing, it is only fair.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Nope this has nothing to do wth metagaming.

even if your character knows that the spell can never miss, calling it out to the wizard would be ridiculous. It is just a fact that you deal damage on a miss. As well as that acid arrow is an area spell which kills own allies.

If the wizard always forgets to roll damage to his allies when he uses an acid arrow, i am pretty sure the DM would "meta game" a lot...

As a DM I do remind my players not to forget things... when i do remember...

Meta gaming is using acid arrow on the troll on first sight, when you have never encountered or heard of one before.

 

[fba827]

Heh... well I understand where he's coming from - the other three players tend to forget rules and don't really read what their characters can do; it tends to hurt their tactical choices because they'll do silly things like use Icy Rays on a monster in melee or with ranged attacks (i.e. it doesn't matter if they're Immobilized) or move to an position where line of sight is blocked; so they should be learning the rules.

I just disagree with getting heat for reminding them of that, or saves, or similar things.

You should have mentioned that in your initial post -- it makes the DM's perspective much more clear. If I was DM that had to deal with that a lot, yes, my gut reaction from behind the DM screen -anytime- i heard players talking like that would be to think it's metagaming and i might actually say it as a knee jerk reaction because i wasn't thinking about it as being different.

But in any case, I do not agree with him regardless of this information, but the info does make him seem like less of an authorative (self-censored).

But, yeah, reminding players about stuff like your icy rays example=metagaming; it is about tactics and rules.

reminding players to read a line from the power block=helpful game reminder. is it really _that_ much different from the player asking "what does this keyword mean? how do i know whether it provokes OAs? do i get to add my magic implement bonus to this static damage total?" -- it's all in the same category for me anyway. the power deals damage on a miss = fact.

To me, it's a difference of "what is the power" (helpful) vs. "how to use the power (for whatever the given situation at the time)" (metagaming)

(caveat: once the explanation of "what' goes beyond what is written then it does become a "how." so if you're explaining icy rays to someone and just say "it shoots a bolt that slows someone down (attacks their whatever defense, deals cold damage, uses your implement, etc" it's a 'what.' but if you say "if you shoot this bolt against a creature chasing you, it slows them down ..." you're getting in to a situational 'how' rather than a what.)

If you do care enough to mention it to the DM, I'd simply make your case from the perspective of "sorry if you thought it was metagaming. i wasn't trying to give her tactical advice or anything about how best to use the power, i was just reminding her that she was forgetting to read what the power is, not he rules." but then keep it as that, don't argue or push it; depending on personalities, this has the potential of being an argument that will get out of proportion to the scope of the instance.



Anyway, bottom line, as you can see from the responses in this thread, so don't be upset by it.

 

[Rel]

No it's not metagaming.

However if stuff like this bugs the DM then one way you can address at least some of it is to put some visual reminders out on the table to help everybody keep up with what is going on. When the Cleric in our group casts the spell that boosts everybody's AC she puts a folded index card "tent" on the table that says "+2 AC" on both sides to help people remember that. It might help cut down at least some of the table talk if that is what is really bothering the DM.

If he objects to the table tent thing then I'd probably tell him that he needs to be less of a jackass.

 

[Ed_Laprade]

The GM is not only being a jerk, he's downright cheating. I'd suggest that you have a strong talk with him. If he won't stop cheating, walk. (After using the +5 from nowhere tactic once, to show him what it feels like.)

 

[Bodhiwolff]

From the primary example, and from the other examples you listed (particularly, for me, the one where you said the DM gets his nose out of joint when a player reminds another player of a temporary bonus) you need to all sit down and agree - *as a group* - what is and isn't allowed.

Because, to be frank, if I sat at a table with a DM who tried to enforce that style of table-play, I wouldn't be returning next week. I respect that he is trying to run a "realistic" or "immersionist" game, but sometimes basic gameplay needs to be considered. And this is a *game* -- a recreational, social, communal activity. People need to be able to communicate about the game as they play the game so the game can get played, damnit!

What's next? A moritorium on talking about dice, 'cause your characters don't carry around polyhedrals?

No, I think that perhaps everybody needs to voice their needs, and as a group set the acceptable levels of communication, interaction, assistance, and gamesmanship.

Sure, you don't tell somebody else how to run their character, and you rarely give advice on how exactly to implement a power, but there needs to be some coordination for things to work.