D&D General Is it right for The Pcs to choose to not go up to 6th level straight away simply because they'll be too strong for several very good adventures?

JMISBEST

Explorer
A Friend I know is part of a group and she has asked me to ask a question on behalf of her and her 4 follow players. What do you think?

The question is is it right for The Pcs to choose to not go up to 6th level straight away simply because if they do then they will be too strong for several very good adventures?

Basically their GM has convinced them to delay advancing to 6th level because the rules don't say that you don't have to go up a level straight away, which means you can delay it if you want, and if they do advance to 6th level straight away then they'll be too powerful for several very good adventures

My thinking is that theirs 3 reason why their isn't, or should be, a problem. The 1st reason is that the rules don't say that you have to go up a level straight away, which means you can delay it if you want, the 2nd reason is that I don't know if the players know but I do know that their GM's right and if their characters do advance to 6th level straight away then their characters will be too powerful for several very good adventures and the 3rd reason is because even though The GM asked the players to do this they didn't have to agree but they did. What do you think?
 

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DeviousQuail

Adventurer
Totally fine to hold off. No one is going to steal their character sheets and level them up in the middle of the night against their will.

Another option is for the GM to augment those really cool adventures to be challenging to higher level players. The jump from 5th to 6th isn't crazy so it shouldn't take too much to make it work.
 


JMISBEST

Explorer
Totally fine to hold off. No one is going to steal their character sheets and level them up in the middle of the night against their will.

Another option is for the GM to augment those really cool adventures to be challenging to higher level players. The jump from 5th to 6th isn't crazy so it shouldn't take too much to make it work.
The 4 main reasons converting the adventures to be a challenge will be harder then normal are as follows and I admit that most of these issue's are caused by the fact that even though The GM's A Veteran that's got 27 years and 12 campaigns, this 1's the 13th, this is his 1st campaign that isn't A Traveller Campaign, which means that these were caused by him simply not asking for advise

Reason 1 is that all when creating their characters all 5 players managed to fairly create characters that had very high stats. 3 examples of that are that not 1 of The Characters had a stat that are less then 8, and only 1 of them had A Stat with A Initial Value of 8, every character other then The Cavalier had A 18 in their primary stat and of the 5 other stats every character had 1 that was A 15

Reason 2 is that 1 of The Characters is A Druid and The GM was foolish enough to let The Female Druid, that has A Male Player, go for size and power over variety and numbers, even worse is that its 1e ADAD, this means The Female Druid has 10HD of Animal Friend and as far as I know this is the only edition were A 5th level Druid has 10HD rather then 5HD worth and The GM was even more foolish when he decide to let his Male Players Female Druid get 1 5HD Owlbear and 1 5HD Giant Crocodile

Reason 3 is that 1 of The Characters is A Cavalier, which in 1e ADAD was A Class rather then A Subclass, the minimum stat requirements are/were Str 15, Con 15, Dex 15, Int 10, Wis 10 but no minimum Ch, this 1 started with Str 16, Con 15, Dex 15, Int 11, Wis 10 and Ch 8, as he's 5th level, he's accompanied by 2D4 or 7 1st level Men At Arms and as he's A 5th level Cavalier he must have A Armiger and A Scutifer, The Armigers A 3rd level Fighter and The Scutifers A 3rd level Ranger

Reason 4 is that The GM has been foolish enough that when going up A Level he's let The Player that controls The Magic User choose his characters new spells, so far The Players been reasonable when choosing his characters new spell but theirs always the risk that The Player will decide to stop reasonable when choosing his characters new spell
 

A Friend I know is part of a group and she has asked me to ask a question on behalf of her and her 4 follow players. What do you think?

The question is is it right for The Pcs to choose to not go up to 6th level straight away simply because if they do then they will be too strong for several very good adventures?

Basically their GM has convinced them to delay advancing to 6th level because the rules don't say that you don't have to go up a level straight away, which means you can delay it if you want, and if they do advance to 6th level straight away then they'll be too powerful for several very good adventures

My thinking is that theirs 3 reason why their isn't, or should be, a problem. The 1st reason is that the rules don't say that you have to go up a level straight away, which means you can delay it if you want, the 2nd reason is that I don't know if the players know but I do know that their GM's right and if their characters do advance to 6th level straight away then their characters will be too powerful for several very good adventures and the 3rd reason is because even though The GM asked the players to do this they didn't have to agree but they did. What do you think?

Weird.

Why wouldnt the DM simply upscale the encounter difficulty. Adding a few extra monsters here or there, or simply buffing HP by 50 percent for the Solos and adding +2 to all D20 rolls and increasing damage dice by 1 or 2 steps each works wonders and is dead easy to do on the fly.
 

TheSword

Legend
Or a bigger question, why on earth is a DM with 27 years of gaming experience selected 1e as his first foray into D&D in 2022?

I’m conflicted on the original question. On one hand it sounds like a power issue, where level isn’t the biggest problem. If players agree, anything is possible. I seem to recall not leveling up in Baldurs Gate and just collecting XP so that when I found the companions they were low level and I could advance them how I wanted to!

On the other hand those good adventures aren’t going anywhere. Surely they can be used in their next campaign. Artificially postponing level up is just going to make the problem worse when you do level up.
 

JMISBEST

Explorer
Or a bigger question, why on earth is a DM with 27 years of gaming experience selected 1e as his first foray into D&D in 2022?

I’m conflicted on the original question. On one hand it sounds like a power issue, where level isn’t the biggest problem. If players agree, anything is possible. I seem to recall not leveling up in Baldurs Gate and just collecting XP so that when I found the companions they were low level and I could advance them how I wanted to!

On the other hand those good adventures aren’t going anywhere. Surely they can be used in their next campaign. Artificially postponing level up is just going to make the problem worse when you do level up.
On the subject of why on earth is a DM with 27 years of gaming experience selected 1e as his first foray into D&D in 2022?, I will admit that I don't know for sure but I know enough about The GM in question to know that the most likely reason that he's doing it is because someone dared him too and The GM in question never refuse's or turns down a reasonable dare
 

If this is 1E, then Reason #1 is wrong. Leveling requires downtime and training (gp), so the players have to take these actions to level. If the game doesn't provide the downtime to do so, then they'll continue to adventure without accumulating xp until they can spend the time and gp to do so. Given that the gp cost is higher than the xp requirement for most low levels, this was very common in games that didn't hand wave it.

Weird.

Why wouldnt the DM simply upscale the encounter difficulty. Adding a few extra monsters here or there, or simply buffing HP by 50 percent for the Solos and adding +2 to all D20 rolls and increasing damage dice by 1 or 2 steps each works wonders and is dead easy to do on the fly.
Because some spells and class abilities have the ability to trivialize aspects of the adventure. For example, Create Food & Water can destroy an adventure based on wilderness survival.
 

JMISBEST

Explorer
If this is 1E, then Reason #1 is wrong. Leveling requires downtime and training (gp), so the players have to take these actions to level. If the game doesn't provide the downtime to do so, then they'll continue to adventure without accumulating xp until they can spend the time and gp to do so. Given that the gp cost is higher than the xp requirement for most low levels, this was very common in games that didn't hand wave it.


Because some spells and class abilities have the ability to trivialize aspects of the adventure. For example, Create Food & Water can destroy an adventure based on wilderness survival.
Sorry I'd forgotten that in DAD 1e leveling requires downtime and training (gp), so the players have to take these actions to level and as it was the player that's my friend that asked me to ask she must have also forgot
 

Sometimes I have thought about two pillars of leveling up. One would be the power rank, like a PC in a videogame, and the other would be the knownledge, where the PC has learnt a lot of things, "unlocking slots of skill trees" but the "power rank" wouldn't change.
 


aco175

Legend
Overall, if the table wants to stay low level then it is fine. They will only continue to accumulate gold and magic above their level. I would be tempted to split the party with some of the henchmen and other followers becoming another low-level party under the higher level party.
 

Reynard

Legend
5E is supposed to be designed in such a way that one level won't break the PC interactions with an adventure's challenges. What adventures is the GM planning to run that being 6th rather than 5th level makes them no longer usable? That doesn't ring true to me.
 

Mannahnin

Scion of Murgen (He/Him)
Mods, can we get this moved to the Older Editions forum, or the subject fixed to mark that it's for 1E AD&D? Some folks seem to be missing that, and it's causing confusion.

As for the original question, certainly they can hold off, but IMO the DM should just be able to upscale the difficulty on the modules a bit. Add a few HP to the monsters, etc. It's really not a big deal to be one level over the recommended. @JMISBEST , as you've already noted, these characters seem to already be a bit more powerful than average with their high ability scores and multiple monster companions, so the DM would theoretically be tweaking a little already.
 

JMISBEST

Explorer
5E is supposed to be designed in such a way that one level won't break the PC interactions with an adventure's challenges. What adventures is the GM planning to run that being 6th rather than 5th level makes them no longer usable? That doesn't ring true to me.
Its 1st edition, a lot of the adventures The GM wants to use come from Roleplaying Magazines from The mid to late 80's, these adventures always came with a recommendation as to what The Characters levels should be, and some adventures were designed to include 1 or more members of 1 or more class's, and The GM doesn't feel confident in his abilities to adapt them for higher level characters

1 example of the 2 things I mentioned earlier are as follows. The 1st is that it was recommended that the adventure Beacon at Enon Tor be done by 1st level characters that had some experance, and the 2nd is that back in 2,004 I made A 1e DAD version of The Fighting Fantasy Gamebook City of Thieves were it was recommended that at least half the group were Fighters, that their were no Paladins or Rangers, that only 1 of The Pcs isn't Human and that if the group contained A Thief then he or she should be of a higher level then the other members of the group
 
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TheSword

Legend
Its 1st edition, a lot of the adventures The GM wants to use come from Roleplaying Magazines from The mid to late 80's, these adventures always came with a recommendation as to what The Characters levels should be, and some adventures were designed to include 1 or more members of 1 or more class's, and The GM doesn't feel confidant that he can adapt them for higher level characters

1 example of the 2 things I mentioned earlier are as follows. The 1st is that it was recommended that the adventure Beacon at Enon Tor be done by 1st level characters that had some experance, and the 2nd is that back in 2,004 I made A 1e DAD version of The Fighting Fantasy Gamebook City of Thieves were it was recommended that at least half the groups were Fighters, that their were no Paladins or Rangers, have only 1 Pc that isn't Human and that if the group contained A Thief that he or she should be of a higher level then the other members of the group
Yeah, any adventure that relies on a specific gimmick or the absence of a specific spell, probably doesn’t belong on my list of must run adventures.

The Greats take this kinda stuff into consideration.
 

JMISBEST

Explorer
Mods, can we get this moved to the Older Editions forum, or the subject fixed to mark that it's for 1E AD&D? Some folks seem to be missing that, and it's causing confusion.

As for the original question, certainly they can hold off, but IMO the DM should just be able to upscale the difficulty on the modules a bit. Add a few HP to the monsters, etc. It's really not a big deal to be one level over the recommended. @JMISBEST , as you've already noted, these characters seem to already be a bit more powerful than average with their high ability scores and multiple monster companions, so the DM would theoretically be tweaking a little already.
To be honest it didn't occur to me that because these characters are already a bit more powerful than average with their high ability scores and multiple monster companions that the DM should already be tweaking a little, I guess its starting to show that the last time I played or GM'd 1st edition DAD was almost 20 years ago

In case your wondering by this I'm referring to 2 things, the 1st is that even though the last time I played or GM's 1st edition DAD was in July 2,002 I didn't actually stop making adventures for people I knew that did use 1st edition DAD to use until April 2,007, and the 2nd thing thing I'm referring to is the fact that the group I mentioned a few days ago hasn't yet had their 1st game

Also I just realized that on several occasions I forgot to put in 1st edition DAD, and as a result its likely that I gave the impression that I hadn't played or GM'd any edition of DAD in almost 20 years, but I have, just not 1st edition. Sorry
 
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dave2008

Legend
5E is supposed to be designed in such a way that one level won't break the PC interactions with an adventure's challenges. What adventures is the GM planning to run that being 6th rather than 5th level makes them no longer usable? That doesn't ring true to me.
They are running 1e, not 5e.
 


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