Is it wrong for NPCs to block a 'detect evil' check by a PC?

[green slime]

Except that it's a court of "Law", not a court of "Good".

I'd say that about a third of the population (plus or minus some due to culture) will end up as detecting evil. Typiclly, good societies will not oppress the evil, as they have a respect for life and other sentient being not just other good ones. If they just went around smiting all evil, then they would be no better than those they smite (although they may try and convince themselves otherwise). Even good societies will have actions that could be evil and quite legal. LE types such as the evil landlord may operate quite well in such a society. Nobody will like them, but they will not be smited because he is obeying the laws of society and only preforming actions that neutral or even good people take but he just enjoys his work. So such tactics as detecting everybody gives no real information, nor does it give reason to act.

Want to mess with the paladin? Have a neutral person committing the actions and a prominent evil one who, although evil, wishes to see the person brougt to justice. There could even be a murder mystery where a good person perfromed the murder. Good people snap also and aren't aways willing to confess their sins.

As to whether or not it is ok for an evil NPC to disguise his alignment, it's not unheard of. Most towns have clerics who can cast such spells, and it is not unlikely they might do so, particularly if something has been done that points to evil being done. Now, doing it just because you have a PC with that ability is not good. My rule of thumb is, "Would I have given said evil person such protection even if the party couldn't detect evil?" If the answer is yes, then I go ahead and give them the protection.

Of course, if evil comes in variations of degree, those degrees are related to the actions on has actually taken, and Detect Evil can determine those degees, then at a certain point, a person could be judged to be so evil that they would have preformed something worth smiting. As I run it, deeds not words make alignment. If a person values life or hates it but never actually acts upon those feelings, then they are neutral. To be good or evil requires some actual good or evil acts. To be really good or really evil requires some really good or evil acts. It also acts the other way around and good or evil people are compeled to commit actions according to their alignment or eventually suffer alignment change. An assasin that hides out in a village as a good person, cannot commit good acts as part of his cover any more than a paladin could commit evil acts to disguise his nature. If they try, their alignments will gradually lessen head to neutral, and then conform to their actions.

I like that this works for you, and that you state it clearly. I make it clear, IMC, that it is easy to slide to evil, but that the road to redemption is hard. Harbouring evil thoughts is evil. The armies of Evil are legion, the champions of good few and far between. It isn't enough to pretend to be good, want to be good, or even do the odd good deed now and then. Being good is hard.

Evil tempts you. It doesn't appear before you asking you to stab a child in the heart on the first date...

You don't need to help those beggars. They aren't worth your time. You need your money. Hoard it. Evil wants you to care more about you than others. It wants you to put yourself first. You need your slaves. You deserve to indulge yourself. You earned the right. You're smarter than they are. Conceit, Self-Indulgence, Sloth, Greed. Then, in order to maintain this lifestyle, you should punish that lazy slave. Set an example. Why be polite? Swear and Curse, Kick the beggar, so he moves out of your way. Spend that money on fine clothes, look at yourself! Cheat on those foolish enough to fall for your tricks. The foolish deserve what they get. Clean the streets of those beggars. Put them in squalid barracks. Make them can work for their upkeep. Acquire sex slaves. Abuse those in lesser stations. Remove rivals for political favours by spreading rumours and innuendo. Order assassinations against those that displease you. Use drugs and stimulants. You could regain youth, if you just perform this small ritual. No one will ever miss a bastard child of some beggar...

 

[Rystil Arden]

An assasin that hides out in a village as a good person, cannot commit good acts as part of his cover

Huh? So are you saying that Palpatine would have been forced to good alignment in the early Star Wars movies by virtue of being nice to people as a cover for his evil schemes? Or that an evil character who was an orphan can't also volunteer at an orphanage in her spare time to help other orphans (as well as find potential recruits for her dark cult)? It seems like you are saying that evil characters in your game have to be possessed with crazy raving evil that commits random evil acts for no reason, so let me submit for your approval the yochlol demon:

Yochlol demons have been known to fall in love with handsome mortal men and become their paramours. The relationship never ends in the lover's betrayal by the yochlol, who acts as the perfect lady, but it results in ostracism and eventually death at the hands of the paramour's former friends and relatives for eloping with a demon, after which the yochlol retaliates by killing those who ostracised her lover and then returning to the Abyss.

So are you saying that the yochlol is incapable of performing something in its description?

 

[reanjr]

Those creature that are born evil, WILL commit evil deeds. It is their nature.

Not necessarily true. The creature may become good (even creatures listed as always have exceptions in the RAW). It may never have an opportunity to commit an evil deed.

As a better example of inability to commit evil, think of a neutral child captured, beaten, raped, mutilited and then dumped in the middle of nowhere. His mind has snapped, and his only thoughts are of empowering himself by commiting these acts upon others. He dreams daily of carving children up and eating their genitals. He yearns for contact with a woman he can take back to his place to sate his sexual paraphelia.

But as far as you're concerned, he's not evil.

 

[Crothian]

Why would a character that can detect evil just randomly kill anything that detected as evil? I've never had a problem with characters that can detect evil, but ones that think being evil is a death sentance I do have a problem with.

I love PCs that have detect evil ability. It is one of the best plot devices ever.

 

[green slime]

Not necessarily true. The creature may become good (even creatures listed as always have exceptions in the RAW). It may never have an opportunity to commit an evil deed.

As a better example of inability to commit evil, think of a neutral child captured, beaten, raped, mutilited and then dumped in the middle of nowhere. His mind has snapped, and his only thoughts are of empowering himself by commiting these acts upon others. He dreams daily of carving children up and eating their genitals. He yearns for contact with a woman he can take back to his place to sate his sexual paraphelia.

But as far as you're concerned, he's not evil.

Yep, excellent example reanjr. IMC (again, treading carefully here, not to step on toes) that child is a poor, broken, lost soul. Evil definitely. But redeemable, through hard work, good deeds, and living example. And woe betide any Paladin smiting such a pathetic creature.

 

[painandgreed]

Huh? So are you saying that Palpatine would have been forced to good alignment in the early Star Wars movies by virtue of being nice to people as a cover for his evil schemes? ...

My appologies for writing so unclrear but that sould be explained in the rest of the sentence and paragraph. They are not physically prohibited from commiting such acts, but there is always a cost. A paladin can commit evil acts as part of a cover as could a CG thief in their attempt to kill the evil priest and hopefully commit a greater good. They are still commiting evil acts and thier alignment would adapt accordingly. A evil assiasin that hides out and pretend the good farmer could do good acts, but unless he balanced that out with evil acts, his alignment would being to shift towords good.

A "born evil" creature could do good, but they would balance that out with evil. the Yochol demon may not commit evil towards her paramour, but be sure that her acts towards the others will be evil in nature.

...and yes, reanjr, he would remain neutral. Just as the child that always wanted to do great good in the world that never actually got off his ass to actually do any. There is a wide grey smear where neutral is, but he'd never detect as evil.

As usual, that's the way things are IMC. i don't think they violate the RAW. I also think the RAW is pretty vague and open to a wide range of interpretations. As with all alignment issues, always talk to you idividual DM.

 

[reanjr]

A paladin can commit evil acts as part of a cover

?!?!?!?!
Don't take this the wrong way, but I feel I can safely ignore you for the rest of this thread.

 

[painandgreed]

?!?!?!?!
Don't take this the wrong way, but I feel I can safely ignore you for the rest of this thread.

Finally, we are in agreement.

 

[Rystil Arden]

My appologies for writing so unclrear but that sould be explained in the rest of the sentence and paragraph. They are not physically prohibited from commiting such acts, but there is always a cost. A paladin can commit evil acts as part of a cover as could a CG thief in their attempt to kill the evil priest and hopefully commit a greater good. They are still commiting evil acts and thier alignment would adapt accordingly. A evil assiasin that hides out and pretend the good farmer could do good acts, but unless he balanced that out with evil acts, his alignment would being to shift towords good.

Ah, I get it now That means the assassin has even more reason to do the good acts without the evil, then, since he'll be able to fool everyone in the town into thinking he is good, even Paladins, since he detects as Good now, while he still knows that he's planning on wiping out the entire village when the time is right, despite his good deeds now for cover.

 

[lacedaemon]

spelling mistake nothing, its open mockery.

Yes but that says a lot more about you than me.

Precisely because no one can agree it is best to just do away with alignments entirely and if you don’t do that then make it very clear at the start of a game where you stand if you are the DM.