Is Jack Bauer LG?

[Vegepygmy]

And "bordering" on torture? Staging fake executions of children to force people to talk isn't bordering on anything, it's torture.

I don't watch the show, so maybe there's more to it than you just described, but "staging fake executions of children" isn't anything like what I consider to be torture.

 

[Banshee16]

But he tells the truth, keeps his word, helps those in need and speaks out against injustice. He also hates to see the guilty go unpunished, though not at the expense of the other ideals. Yes, his actions border on torture at times, but only to further the ends of law and goodness. He's definitely not neutral since he serves an "order", nor is he chaotic for the same resaon. It's a tough call, but if I had to assign an alignment to that NPC it would have to be LG. I'm not comfortable with that though, so somebody please convince me otherwise.

He serves good, but uses bad means to do so. Heck, he could be evil for all we know? Depends on whether you view torture as evil. I mean, he shot a guy's wife in the leg to get the guy to give him info...not exactly the action of a "good" person..

I'd say neutral. Just because he's neutral doesn't mean he can't follow the law....it means he'll follow it when he wants, and ignore it when it doesn't suit his purposes..

Banshee

 

[Thunderfoot]

I don't watch the show, so maybe there's more to it than you just described, but "staging fake executions of children" isn't anything like what I consider to be torture.

True - that isn't torture - that's colusion or coersion

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Collusion is cooperation - when you collude with a criminal, you're helping him out.

So it is coercion - but torture is just a violent form of coercion. So there's no real distinction.

 

[Drowbane]

I'm going to put forth a radical theory here:

Jack Bauer is Lawful Evil. The actions he takes--no matter what the motivations might be--can only qualify as evil in D&D's definitions.

But then why does he try to protect people? Why does he keep his word (when he can)?

Quite simply, the "Lawful" alignment implies order, but it also (often) implies adherence to a code. Jack Bauer is an evil guy whose personal code happens to follow most of the precepts of "good."

Weird, I know. But I'm quite serious. Nowhere do the alignment rules define what a personal code can or cannot consist of.

I agree with the blood-sucking-rodent.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I don't watch the show, so maybe there's more to it than you just described, but "staging fake executions of children" isn't anything like what I consider to be torture.

Really? Are you a parent?

If you saw someone shoot one of your children in the head, and then told you the rest of your bound and helpless family was next, what would you consider it? A prank?

 

[mhacdebhandia]

Jack Bauer is Lawful Evil. The actions he takes--no matter what the motivations might be--can only qualify as evil in D&D's definitions.

But then why does he try to protect people? Why does he keep his word (when he can)?

Quite simply, the "Lawful" alignment implies order, but it also (often) implies adherence to a code. Jack Bauer is an evil guy whose personal code happens to follow most of the precepts of "good."

This is the same sensible reasoning underlying the fact that most spymasters and secret police chiefs in Eberron are Lawful Evil (and, more rarely, Lawful Neutral).

It's perfectly possible to believe in a set of good moral principles so much that you're willing to be immoral in upholding them.

No one said people can't be hypocrites, after all.

 

[Corsair]

This is the same sensible reasoning underlying the fact that most spymasters and secret police chiefs in Eberron are Lawful Evil (and, more rarely, Lawful Neutral).

It's perfectly possible to believe in a set of good moral principles so much that you're willing to be immoral in upholding them.

No one said people can't be hypocrites, after all.

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

-Attributed to George Orwell

 

[delericho]

Jack Bauer is neither Lawful nor Good. As others have mentioned, he regularly makes use of torture to accomplish his goals, which precludes a Good alignment. He also consistently shows a disregard for authority in his actions, which precludes a Lawful alignment. Having a personal code does not, in itself, make one either Lawful or Good.

Jack is clearly on the right side - those deplorable acts he engages in are generally absolutely necessary. However, doing evil in a good cause does not make those acts good.

Jack is a complex character. I'd place his alignment as Neutral, perhaps Neutral Evil.

 

[glass]

I don't watch the show, so maybe there's more to it than you just described, but "staging fake executions of children" isn't anything like what I consider to be torture.

Do you have children?


glass.