Is killing a Goblin who begs for mercy evil?

[jerryrice4949]

I don’t get all the debate. Killing a creature that is surrendering is neither lawful nor good. Sure it can be rationalized, most terrible acts can.

Now whether such an act is evil, well that is debatable. Who is to say. Few evil people would see themselves as evil and often have, at least in their mind, justifiable reasons for what they are doing, even if most people think their acts are repugnant, immoral and evil.

 

[aco175]

Back in 2e days, a player was playing a paladin and detected alignment on just about everyone he encountered. It became more a problem than a cool power. If he detected evil on a shopkeeper or such, he treated them as scheming or looking to swindle him. He would even bully them for being evil. It was middle-school and our ideas on good and evil were not fully formed yet.

 

[Gradine]

I mean, if you can pull out "the ends justify the means" as a justification for an evil act (murdering an unarmed individual) for a Lawful Good character, then your alignment system lacks a fundamental consistency or basis in objectivity in pretty much every way.

 

[d24454_modern]

I mean, if you can pull out "the ends justify the means" as a justification for an evil act (murdering an unarmed individual) for a Lawful Good character, then your alignment system lacks a fundamental consistency or basis in objectivity in pretty much every way.

Are you talking about the alignments system or the players because this sounds like a player problem.

 

[Justice and Rule]

Are you talking about the alignments system or the players because this sounds like a player problem.

I think the point is that someone brought up Gygax's own idea that an LG Paladin could do this, which would seem to make the alignment system itself worthless and easily gameable.

 

[DammitVictor]

I think the point is that someone brought up Gygax's own idea that an LG Paladin could do this, which would seem to make the alignment system itself worthless and easily gameable.

Call it what it was: according to Gygax, a Lawful Good Paladin was obligated to do this. A Paladin who refused was a coward and fallen from grace.

Whenever someone tells you that the alignment system is simple and straightforward, remember that this is what its author considered objective morality-- this was the obvious truth from which no honest observer could depart.

Alignment is an irredeemably rotten institution because it was built on a foundation of rot.

 

[d24454_modern]

Call it what it was: according to Gygax, a Lawful Good Paladin was obligated to do this. A Paladin who refused was a coward and fallen from grace.

Whenever someone tells you that the alignment system is simple and straightforward, remember that this is what its author considered objective morality-- this was the obvious truth from which no honest observer could depart.

Alignment is an irredeemably rotten institution because it was built on a foundation of rot.

Pathfinder has literal books on how alignment works.

paizo.com - Pathfinder Player Companion: Champions of Purity

paizo.com

paizo.com - Pathfinder Player Companion: Champions of Balance (PFRPG)

paizo.com

paizo.com - Pathfinder Player Companion: Champions of Corruption (PFRPG)

paizo.com

 

[Shair-afiyun]

1) Does the party have a high enough insight / sense motive check?
2) Is the creature's alignment an exception to the norm?
3) What are the player's codes/tenents, if they have any.
4) What is the creature?
5) What sort of situation is the party in?

Sounds like a lot of conditions, but its not. Also obviously its merely walking around in circles trying to fill out these questions on a hypothetical. As I could state one thing but many other combinations can also be true. The only safe way to answer this is when you are actually in the moment.

 

[DammitVictor]

Pathfinder has literal books on how alignment works.

Oh, goody. I am certainly glad we've solved that problem, then.

 

[kalonx]

Killing a creature that has surrendered and is begging for mercy would always, in my DMing opinion, ruin a paladin's status, even if it is a demon/devil. It may not be an evil act in the case of a demon, but it is definitely not a Lawful Good thing to do and would cause the paladin to lose power for a while. I like my Good guys to actually be Good (with the capital G for emphasis), so showing mercy to surrendering foes to allow them to be dealt with justly or be given a chance to repent is the best way to go.

You have clearly confused “lawful good” with “lawful nice”. You are also supporting the “stupid paladin” stereotype. A demon? You think a paladin should spare a demon that begs for mercy? That’s the polar opposite of good…that would literally be unleashing evil into the world. A goblin might not be evil. A demon is the very essence of evil. You KNOW, not suspect, but have absolute knowledge and confidence that a demon freed will go on to do harm to the innocent.