Is Multiclassing Balanced?

[Stalker0]

I think the only problem with multiclass is the spellcaster multiclass. While I agree with the whole lose power gain flexibility argument people are using, in my experience, the flexibility you gain does not make up for the power you lose...creating a weaker character overall.

Other than this however, I think multiclassing works very well, but it would be nice to have some adjustments to make caster multiclassing more attractive.

 

[Gentlegamer]

I've been working on house rules that treat every core class as a Prestige class for the purpose of multiclassing after 1st level. Essentially, each has prerequisites that are necessary before "taking" the first level in the class.

 

[Thunderfoot]

Balanced! If you multi-class you are essentially trying to be a bard (Jack of all trades, master of none). Accept your fate and know your role - support.

A multi-classed character will always be "less powerful" than a single classed character, but they have spread-loaded their skills and feat to be more optimal in different situations than others of their ilk. Since mages seems to be the focus, lets look at the trade-offs, as a magic using type, you have phenominal cosmic power and the vitality of an impotent snail, should a lucky shot with a bow get through, you're toast, even at higher levels. Any class you take should give you a higher "survivability" factor when things get messy. You trade power for pain soak, simple as that.

The reverse is true for other characters, you sacrifice the killing stroke (fighting type), defensive post (priest types) and skills a plenty (rogue types) for that chance to have the right spell at the right time. Spider Climb for the thief that absolutely, positively has to make that climb check (or Knock when the door has to be opened or your money back, usually at sword point). Bless, Aid, etc is great, but if you can't deal damage, what good is protecting yourself from it. And imagine the surprise when the approaching enemy prepares to attack that Magic Missile slinging mage only to find out that he has armor and weapons outside of the class mold as well as being buffed to high heaven. (pun intended)

And what about the 'naked' fighter, that happens to have Mage Armor and the high Con and Dex bonuses and can still use a shield or conjure one up as the case may be. Imagine the look on the opposing wizard's face when the Magic Missiles he sends at the charging fighter glance helplessly off the Shield spell, right before the fighter hacks off his head. Utility is the watch word, not "I can't cast this even though I'm "X" character level." No, spell casters aren't hosed, they are on par with the rest of us "mere mortals",

 

[the Jester]

More and more, I think a feat per level and lots of different feats that can mitigate overly-negative impacts of choices (f'rexample, I really think a sorcerer who multiclasses loses much more than a fighter does, regardless of the class the two characters multi into; thus Practiced Spellcaster) is the answer. (Or at least a good answer.) This is also a good way to help handle the overabundance of feats out there- maybe make every other feat a "class feat" and make lists for each class...?

 

[Glyfair]

Balanced! If you multi-class you are essentially trying to be a bard (Jack of all trades, master of none). Accept your fate and know your role - support.

This isn't necessarily true. I can run a fine fighter/rogue and not feel like a "master of none."

However, you do touch on a reasonable point. The Jack-of-all-Trades rarely works well in D&D. I think part of it is that the game is designed for a party where everyone focuses on a role, and is expected to it well. It was even more emphasised in earlier versions of the game (when diversifying was hard to impossible). So, when create a persona that spreads your abilities among various roles, you find you don't quite measure up to expectations in any of them.

Systemically, the reason that primary fighters tend to multi-class well is because every class helps your essential fighting ability, BAB. Even the poor combatants gain some fighting ability, just more slowly. The skill based classes are similiar, but not as good. Every class gains some skill points as they gain levels (and their maximum skills keep increasing, so you can still sink more points into most skills with the levels in the skill based classes)

Non-spellcasters, on the other hand, don't increase the ability to cast spells. One feat helps that a little bit, but not much. Perhaps one step in that direction would be either a variation on Practiced Spellcaster being automatic, or some mechanic that helps in some way (non-spellcasting classes increase your caster level at a lower rate).

 

[rgard]

It needs to be fixed. How? I have no idea. Some individual patches seem to work rather well, like the Duskblade. But not every concept demands a new base class.

Perhaps a rule could be invented that would allow you to take two classes and put them in a blender? You want a fighter rogue? That's a d8 hd, medium armour proficiency, 5 skill points per level, 4bab per 5 levels, sneak attack level 1 , bonus feat level 3, etc. class.

Check out the Generic Classes from Unearthed Arcana. Very flexible if you take one class and extremely flexible if you multi-class.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[rgard]

It was weak for spellcasters in 3.0. Since 3.5 has the "bridge PrCs", which is a perfectly valid solution, it is more or less balanced for all characters.

I'll agree with that. Compare a 12th level character with 6 levels of Wizard and 6 levels of Cleric to a 12th level character with 3 levels Wizard, 3 levels Cleric and 6 levels Mystic Theurge.

Or the Druid version (Arcane Heiro..something.)

I did vote balanced for all.

 

[rgard]

I heartily agree that a multiclassed character should be weaker within the specific balliwack of a single classed character. That's true. Otherwise, what would be the benefit of sticking with a class?

However, it shouldn't result in a character which is so much weaker that he becomes inneffective. Less effective, I have no beefs with, but, when the character is so much baggage because he can't do anything, then there is a problem.

The bridge PrC's and certain feats mitigate this quite a bit.

On the baggage thing, that's the problem with being a Jack of All Trades. It's a life style choice.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[ruleslawyer]

With the bridge PrCs AND Practiced Spellcaster, multiclassing is (barely) balanced for spellcasters.

IMHO, versatility is vastly overrated by many people. I remember going at it with various other posters who thought the mystic theurge was overpowered when the class was first released. It may sound great that a Clr3/Wiz3/Mystic Theurge 6 is throwing off 5th-level cleric spells AND 5th-level wizard spells. However, with a caster level of 9th, he's also at a serious disadvantage in beating SR and in making his spells last. Most importantly, the loss of 6th-level spells for EL 12 encounters means that the MT isn't actually capable of providing his party with the functionality that the designers expect of 12th-level spellcasters when they design CR/EL 12 encounters. That can be a big problem.

I do think that multiclassing is balanced for non-spellcasters, if only because it seems to hug the indifference curve; even the "best" multiclass combos (Rog/Rgr, Ftr/Bbn, etc.) are not clearly superior choices to their single-class counterparts (except possibly straight fighter, but that's a different problem...). A rog/rgr is a different kind of character than a straight rogue or straight ranger, but he's not automatically mechanically more powerful than either.

 

[Ranger REG]

Other than this however, I think multiclassing works very well, but it would be nice to have some adjustments to make caster multiclassing more attractive.

Like a Magic Attack Bonus (or MAB)?

I mean, let's face it, BAB is added no matter what classes you choose, even if you decided to take all 1st-level in nonmartial classes (you could always incorporate the variant fractional BAB progression in Unearthed Arcana).