Holy Bovine
First Post
Uh, well I guess you have your answer then. Your DM is kind of a dick. What possible reason can he have for dividing the XP by 5 for 4 PCs?
Is my DM setting us up for failure? [Minor Spoilers for Demon Queen's Enclave]
- Thread starter wayne62682
- Start date
Uh, well I guess you have your answer then. Your DM is kind of a dick. What possible reason can he have for dividing the XP by 5 for 4 PCs?
jdrakeh
Front Range Warlock
well, if it was somewhat unintentional at first, he may have just been defensive (who knows, the OP may question the DM a lot and so the gut DM reaction is to default to the "DM-allowance" response)... but if he continued to do it even after it being mentioned to him, then, yeah, it does get a little questionable.
In of itself, it isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it does slow the rate of advancement (and this could explain your current predicament if he's still doing it). If you're running through a published adventure and your XP is being lessened then it will take you longer to get to the level that the published adventure expects you to be at during each stage of encounters.
However, if you were just running home-made adventures then it doesn't matter in the least because the DM would keep saying "oh, they're level X thus this is appropriate" rather than the published adventure telling him it's appropriate.
LostSoul
Adventurer
I would say that he should provide a good reason for it - the players are working for their hard-earned rewards, and they deserve the XP awarded to them.
Imagine if a DM said, "Well, even though there are only 4 of you, you still have to divide the loot from the dragon's hoard 5 ways." That's just as lame.
Imagine if a DM said, "Well, even though there are only 4 of you, you still have to divide the loot from the dragon's hoard 5 ways." That's just as lame.
wayne62682
First Post
His answer was, quite literally, that our levels would be too high if he divided by 4. That's also when he started saying how it's all good because the adventure is designed for characters of level x through y. In fact since we started playing the game he's been dividing by 5; now we have 5 PCs so it's alright, but since Keep on the Shadowfell he's been dividing by 5. I mean, we started King of the Trollhaunt Warrens when we were still heroic tier.
He honestly does not understand how to balance 4e and thinks that it can be played exactly like 1st or 2nd edition D&D (and fondly reminisces about how great those editions were, and most 4e groups "should be playing Diablo instead of D&D" based on how they seem to play), nor does he understand or care how to scale encounters or that the current published adventures are supposed to take you from one level to another. The funniest thing is that he recently passed the RPGA Herald DM test so now goes off telling people how he's an "certified D&D DM" and says he can't wait to start running LFR adventures at a local game store. I feel bad for the players if he DMs the way he does in our home games
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This is actually true, if you look at the math. I'm not defending anything else the DM has done, but I ran half of Keep on the Shadowfell for a 4 PC party, unmodified, and when I was dividing the experience by 4 they were leveling very quickly.
Let's see... my group picked up 54,000 experience through the end of H2. That'd put 'em at level 8, if it'd been a four person group, which is a tad high for entering H3.
In retrospect it's preferable to shrink the encounters, but that's certainly more work. I'll also note that H1 runs just fine as is with four PCs, including Irontooth. It's not entirely surprising that a DM might feel like that could continue.
In any case, the DM's math is correct. A four person group tackling encounters built for five PCs will level faster than a five person group unless you reduce the experience granted; which is certainly the DM's perogative. If you need a rule for that, it's on page 121 of the DMG.
Fanaelialae
Legend
IMO, the DM ought to have been shrinking the encounters. It's not difficult; remove one non-minion from the fight and you're back in the ballpark.
On the other hand, it sounds like you guys have been succeeding despite the odds. Have there been a lot of PC deaths? If not, it may simply be that the DM is attempting to compensate for the fact that you (the players) may simply be better at tactics than he is, and he'd find it impossible to challenge you otherwise.
On the other hand, it sounds like you guys have been succeeding despite the odds. Have there been a lot of PC deaths? If not, it may simply be that the DM is attempting to compensate for the fact that you (the players) may simply be better at tactics than he is, and he'd find it impossible to challenge you otherwise.
Gort
Explorer
Yeah, but if they're fighting encounters built for 5 PCs, they can probably use an extra level or two to make up for the missing man.
I'd certainly consider doing that in a 3rd edition game, as PCs with too much wealth for their level can cause problems.
Of course, I'd remove it from the hoard before they got there, rather than having some of the treasure disappear in front of their eyes.
True. But that's the other half of it -- a competent party can buzzsaw through H1 even down a PC. I suspect that becomes much less true at paragon tier.
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