Is my DM setting us up for failure? [Minor Spoilers for Demon Queen's Enclave]

[Xeterog]

It really sounds like your party is handling the encounters just fine as they are. My group got thru the last encounter of DQE just fine despite being 'only' 16th level, and entering that last encounter low on resources (one player was out of healing surges, two others were at one or two, about 1/2 of the daily powers the party had were already expended). Granted, there were 6 players, and it was a close fight (several players were knocked unconscious during the fight, tho all were up at the end).

If you are having fun playing, don't worry so much if the DM is being unfair (in your opinion), worry more about having fun. heck, it's D&D if your PC dies, you can be resurected or just make a new PC to continue on with (might even work well going into the P3 if one of the PC's dies and doesn't come back).

If you are not having fun, quit. Form your own group or join another. It's no good playing in a game you aren't having fun with and/or with people you don't enjoy being around. It's just a game..have fun or move on.

 

[Jack99]

I don't know much about the 4e rules, but is there any reason why your party can't withdraw and create the items you deem necessary for the adventure?

Items mean very little (compared to previous editions) in 4e.

 

[Fanaelialae]

I don't know much about the 4e rules, but is there any reason why your party can't withdraw and create the items you deem necessary for the adventure?

Also, 4e favors the approach of acquiring gear (during adventures) over creating it. Based on the DMG treasure tables, gear you find is always above your level. You cannot craft an item above your level and gold is also (probably, though I'm not 100% certain of this as I haven't done a hard comparison) scarcer than it was in 3.x.

So even if you meet an NPC capable of crafting an item above your level, it'd be unusual for you to be able to afford it.

That said, Jack's correct in that items make up a much smaller portion of your overall power than they did in previous editions.


In Wayne's case, however, the situation is probably exacerbated by the fact that his party is regularly facing higher level monsters while using lower level gear. A +1 here or there is barely noticeable when facing creatures of your level, but if the DM is regularly using level +3 creatures (whose defenses are also +3 over a monster of your level) and the party is using gear that is -1 what they are expected to be using for their level, that's an over all +4/-4 situation which will be pretty obvious (monsters hit 40% more often and PCs hit 40% less often than a standard-equipped party fighting equal level monsters). Of course, a standard-equipped party fighting equal level monsters is practically the definition of easy mode, so this isn't necessarily a recipe for TPK.

Again, I suspect from what's been said that the DM is trying to compensate for the fact that he isn't as tactically savvy as the players, though I would hazard to say that in this case it sounds like he's over-compensating a bit.

 

[wayne62682]

Sort of. As I've mentioned in previous posts about this DM, he has a specific view of how D&D "should" be played (which is based on 2e games he played in while in high school; he never played 3.x. He's also never DMed before this 4e campaign started, which is about a year ago) and tries his best to force this on us as players, although IMO he is failing miserably because he's not bothering to weave a story together. The whole game feels like a series of random quests that are set in stone; it's worse than a normal railroad because we WANT to go to the places we need to, but the DM doesn't present the area as anything but a series of fights, and then gets frustrated with us when we treat it as such.

Some examples:

* Giving us no indication that NPCs want to talk to us, or that they might have useful information, and then later getting upset/frustrated because we haven't gone into "Final Fantasy" mode and talked to every NPC in town to see if they have a quest and/or information. Our group isn't very RP heavy at all.

* Getting frustrated when we insist on exploring every room of a dungeon, pointing out that D&D isn't "like Diablo where you have to go and kill everything", yet when we haven't explored all sections (we skipped a fair bit of H3) there's nothing done to compensate for the lost treasure and XP; this is the reason we're below level right now IMO.

* Failing to modify encounters if needed (e.g. when we had 4 PCs, reduce the encounter to be standard for 4 PCs) and modify treasure gained. We basically gave up several treasure parcels because he just used whatever was listed in the modules (I'm guessing, since I haven't read them to see) instead of tailoring it to what we use. So now we have less treasure for our level (our Dwarf battle cleric is still using the +2 flaming maul he got midway through H2!). He does tend to forget monsters have special abilities until midway through the fight, however he also doesn't present us with information regarding things like monster auras, instead forcing us to guess.

* He doesn't let us really use tactics, because he thinks it's metagaming to know the names of specific powers (e.g. it's metagaming to tell the fighter to "use Griffon's Wrath on that guy"), and he enjoys "tricking" us into wasting daily powers on minions (again, he says this makes things "more realistic"). He also changes rules on a whim because he doesn't think it "makes sense" (e.g. he has ruled that I can't use Combat Superiority on certain creatures because he doesn't think my hitting them would make them stop moving)

 

[Shroomy]

Find a new game ASAP. Its better than tearing your hair out over this campaign.

 

[Cadfan]

How frustrated are the other players? If they're equally frustrated, just promote yourselves to level 16 or so, give yourselves new, improved gear, and show up at the session without telling him that you've done so. Or tell him, if you like. But don't give him a choice about it.

I'm serious about that.

Everyone always says that the DM is in charge, that its "his" game, blah, blah, blah. None of that is strictly true. The DM has to be in charge for the things that are literally the DM's job, like making at the table decisions about what the monsters do. But for anything beyond that the DM is in charge only by social convention.

That social convention exists for some good reasons, but those reasons aren't absolute. I think you've probably got a valid exception. So ignore the convention and do what you think is best.

This may seem Machiavellian and immature, but its precisely the same decision he's offering you when your only choices are to comply with his will or leave the game. Its just that he's got social convention on his side when he does it to you.

Seriously. If its a problem, give him an ultimatum. He can comply or step down as DM.

Actually ideally this would be resolvable with honest communication, but apparently that's already happened and now we're in the realm of sheer social coercion. So you might as well win at it.

 

[Hellzon]

If I were in that group, and were a lot more confrontative than I am, I'd ask the DM if he had an idea for a cool character. Because drat.

Also, is Diablo 13 years old? Man, I feel old now.

 

[the Jester]

Sort of. As I've mentioned in previous posts about this DM, he has a specific view of how D&D "should" be played (which is based on 2e games he played in while in high school; he never played 3.x. )

Honestly, why doesn't someone else offer to step up and dm? It doesn't sound like you're having too much fun.

 

[wayne62682]

Honestly, why doesn't someone else offer to step up and dm? It doesn't sound like you're having too much fun.

Honestly it's complicated... except for me and my girlfriend, the other 3 players are the DM's wife, his sister, and his sister's boyfriend; the issue is that the rest of them don't really care one way or another and aren't that familiar with the D&D rules to begin with. The sister and her boyfriend seem to enjoy playing D&D but when I was going to run a second campaign she basically approached me outside of the group and said that "D&D isn't really for [them]" and they don't think they will be doing a second campaign once we finish this one.

If it wasn't for this I would offer to DM, at the very least to give the current DM a break and show him how another DM's approach to the game is (at the risk of sounding like a jerk, to show him how a real DM runs a game).

 

[the Jester]

Honestly it's complicated... except for me and my girlfriend, the other 3 players are the DM's wife, his sister, and his sister's boyfriend; the issue is that the rest of them don't really care one way or another and aren't that familiar with the D&D rules to begin with. The sister and her boyfriend seem to enjoy playing D&D but when I was going to run a second campaign she basically approached me outside of the group and said that "D&D isn't really for [them]" and they don't think they will be doing a second campaign once we finish this one.

If it wasn't for this I would offer to DM, at the very least to give the current DM a break and show him how another DM's approach to the game is (at the risk of sounding like a jerk, to show him how a real DM runs a game).

Seriously, dude. Find some new players.

Life's too short to play crappy rpgs, to quote diaglo.

Edit: Or wow those three players with a one shot that you dm before you pitch a campaign.