D&D 4E Is my friend's unwillingness to try 4e irrational?

[Dragonblade]

In my group we have an interesting situation. We have 9 people who play in 3 different games, and one SW Saga game. The D&D games are AoW, Savage Tide, and Pathfinder. Some people only play in one of the games. Some play in all 3 games.

When 4e was first announced there were about 3 of us who immediately jumped on board. I'm one of them as anyone who reads my posts here know already.

We had two fence sitters and one anti-4e person. As one of the DMs, I got one fence sitter off the fence by flat out saying that my game was converting over and so would he if he wanted to play. Perhaps a little ham-handed but I really have no interest to DM for 3.5 ever again, and he is one of my best friends so he knew I wasn't trying to be a jerk or anything. Besides after reading the previews from WotC and playing in the SW Saga game, he too has been converted and joined the 4e bandwagon and now is really liking what he sees. The other fence sitter is converting because the rest of us including her boyfriend are converting.

At this point the group as a whole has reached a general consensus that all of the current games will be wrapping up this summer and that come June, 4e will be the only game we play. However, in our AoW game (in which I'm only a player) we have another player who has consistently been anti-4e from the very beginning. He only plays in this one campaign. Let's call him "Bob".

Now, everyone in our group are pretty close friends. We hang out a lot even when we are not gaming. Bob is no exception and we really enjoy hanging out with him and gaming with him. Bob also DMs another game with another group of friends. None of the rest of us play in this game and we do not know his other friends.

Bob has been stridently anti-4e from the beginning and has said he will not switch and neither will his other players in his other game. At our sessions we have tried to ask him what his concerns are and he said his principal concern is money. Fair enough, we said. We'll lend you our books. Well, then he countered with he hates borrowing books and feeling like he is mooching off us. Fair enough, we'll chip in and BUY him a PHB as a birthday present. But then he countered by saying that his other players will never switch and he has to keep playing 3.5 in order to game with them. Well, thats no problem. Just run 3.5 with them and play 4e with us.

But now he dropped his previous tack and his saying that he just doesn't want anything to do with 4e and if we switch then he will just no longer play with us. He no longer gives us reasons that we can counter.

At this point our group is scratching our heads. We would really like him to play with us and have offered to remove cost as a barrier to entry when he gave that as his initial reason to not play. Some of us can't help but feel that he is now being completely irrational and childish about the whole thing.

One of our members theorizes that Bob is avoiding 4e because he is afraid that he will actually like it and then will no longer be able to enjoy playing with his other friends. Another theory is that he is avoiding it because he is afraid his other group (which sounds very grognardian when he describes them to us) will view him as a 3.5 "traitor".

Either way its a tough situation for us. Staying with 3.5 is not an option. All three DMs no longer have any desire to DM 3.5 any longer. Heck if it wasn't for the Adventure Paths none of our current games would even exist.

What would you do?

 

[Generico]

I'd let him go if that's what he wants to do. If it's to the point where his only reason for not wanting to play 4e is "because I don't want to", then there's not much you can do about it. The only other option I could see is letting him DM a 3.5 game for the rest of you.

 

[pawsplay]

But now he dropped his previous tack and his saying that he just doesn't want anything to do with 4e and if we switch then he will just no longer play with us. He no longer gives us reasons that we can counter.


What, "I don't think I'll like it?" is not a good enough reason for you? Leave Bob alone, and stop psychoanalyzing him because he isn't enthusiastic about 4e the way you are.

 

[AZRogue]

I would leave him alone. I would move on with your plans and let him come around on his own. If he sees you having fun and no one is TRYING to get him to switch (which is enough reason by itself for some people to dig their heels in) then he will probably come around if he likes gaming with you.

I wouldn't worry about it. If it's not something that he is willing to discuss rationally, you're not going to win him over rationally. Do your thing and let him consider all the fun he's giving up leaving your group.

 

[Agamon]

Nothing you can really do if he's going to be stubborn. He'll either come around when 4E comes out, or you'll be down a player. Your hypotheses seem possible. It is also possible that he's just tired of arguing the point and really doesn't like what the new edition has to offer. Either way, I wouldn't badger him about it, just let him know that if he changes his mind, he's certainly welcome to play.

 

[shadewest]

Regretfully, I would have to let him go. You have done your best to invite him to continue playing. Let him know that your game will become 4E, and he is welcome to stay, or welcome to return if he changes his mind, but this is the game you are going to run as DM.

What I would find disappointing is that he isn't being honest. He doesn't like the mechanics, he doesn't like the new fluff, or he's angry at WoTC for "invalidating" his 3.x library. He doesn't want to hurt your group's feelings by accusing you of being wrong. Hopefully he'll get over it and want to return.

 

[Dragonblade]

I'd let him go if that's what he wants to do. If it's to the point where his only reason for not wanting to play 4e is "because I don't want to", then there's not much you can do about it. The only other option I could see is letting him DM a 3.5 game for the rest of you.

I'm afraid you might be right. Its too bad though. I'd not mind playing 3.5 if he ran a game, even though I'd prefer to play 4e.

 

[rgard]

But now he dropped his previous tack and his saying that he just doesn't want anything to do with 4e and if we switch then he will just no longer play with us. He no longer gives us reasons that we can counter.


What, "I don't think I'll like it?" is not a good enough reason for you? Leave Bob alone, and stop psychoanalyzing him because he isn't enthusiastic about 4e the way you are.

That is the way I see it.

 

[Dragonblade]

What, "I don't think I'll like it?" is not a good enough reason for you? Leave Bob alone, and stop psychoanalyzing him because he isn't enthusiastic about 4e the way you are.

The thing he is he has never given mechanic or fluff reasons to not play. I can respect that, after all people have different tastes.

All his reasons against it so far have been economical, or logistical, which can be overcome.

 

[Rechan]

Here is my question:

Will Bob still hang out with you when you don't play D&D?

If he does, then: no skin off your noses. He's still your friend, you can hang out with him, just not during game day. And he might want to come over eventually.

If he doesn't: then he's being unreasonable and there's nothing you can do.