D&D 4E Is my friend's unwillingness to try 4e irrational?

[RithTheAwakener]

Leave it alone for now. When you guys actually have 4e in your hands and everybody wants to try it out, I suspect "Bob" will have a change of heart.

^ Do that one.

 

[Dragonblade]

BTW, I think the inverse question of your title is equally valid. "When does 4e love become utterly irrational?" Some might say it's when you start bullying your friends into switching rulesets before you've even seen a rulebook.

Fair enough.

 

[Knightfall]

BTW, I think the inverse question of your title is equally valid. "When does 4e love become utterly irrational?" Some might say it's when you start bullying your friends into switching rulesets before you've even seen a rulebook.

QFT.

 

[Belorin]

If your trying to force your opinion on another person then who is being unreasonable? As long as his reasons for not changing are valid in concept, then let him be, forcing it is only going to alienate him from you. If his reasons are financial and not 'the sky will burst into flames' let him be till 4E does come out and he gets to actually see it.

Bel

 

[Ipissimus]

If your trying to force your opinion on another person then who is being unreasonable?

Woah, guys, I don't really see that as what's happening here. Dragonblade, dude, your title here's a touch on the misleading side.

I don't see anyone forcing anyone to do anything. People change and move on. Bob doesn't want to do 4E, everyone else in the group is moving to 4E. If, despite all the olive branches the group extends to him, Bob still doesn't want to play 4E that's his decision. He goes his own way. It might not have anything to do with 4E, he might just be overwhelmed playing 2 games regularly and doesn't have the heart to tell his friends he can't continue. Who knows? I don't know Bob. If the situation was reversed, and everyone else was a 4E-hater while Bob loved 4E and wanted to play, i'd say the same thing. Bob goes his own way.

That being said, if I were Bob and it was my friends converting to 4E or sticking with 3.x while I wanted to convert, and my friends were doing everything they could think of to keep me in the game, I'd stay just to have a good time with my friends. But then, I don't know Bob and I don't know Dragonblade's group or the real situation, so I don't feel I can really give any advice on this.

All I can say is that for me, letting petty quibbles get in the way of having a good time with my friends is not something I'd allow to happen.

 

[Khairn]

Staying with 3.5 is not an option.

It seems that both the GM's and "Bob" have drawn lines in the sand, are pounding their collective chests and come hell or high water neither will consider making a change to the decisions they've announced about a game that hasn't even been published yet. I dont see either side of the argument having any kind of moral high ground, so it comes down to who is willing to bend for the sake of friendship?

If neither you or Bob is willing to change, then don't invite Bob to your games and let him find his own group. Otherwise you're looking at someone always being unhappy with the decision you've made.

It might sound harsh, but when irrevocable lines are drawn, that's what you get.

 

[pawsplay]

Challenge Bob to a cage fight and beat his irrationality out of him.

 

[Lackhand]

Sneak into his house/office, replace all his 3.x paraphernalia with 4e books (so, you may have to wait a while after the game is released so that the splats catch up. Meh.), and then look innocent whenever he asks you what's going on?

Or, assuming you're not the D&D-playing reincarnation of Lucille Ball, just let him do his thing. Keep hanging out with him, and either he'll come 'round, you'll go back 'round, or everything 'round will now be measured as a square anyway.

 

[Umbran]

What would you do?

In the genre-TV world, there's a phenomenon that has been given a name: "browncoating". It is what happens when fans of a show get so insistent and rabid and hammer on a topic so much that the victim starts associating the show with the annoyance he feels around said fans, before ever seeing the show. The term was coined in reference to Firefly and Serenity, but it applies well to anything that fans get rabid about.

It is the phenomenon of someone feeling like he's being forced into something by peer pressure, so that they dig their heels in. Combined with some rational misgivings based upon what they've heard, and any other negative connotations they have, it can be quite a powerful effect. I don't know that this is what's up with your friend, but it is consistent with the little information we have.

People should be given a choice, and allowed to base that choice upon real information and experience, so that they feel that decision is an informed one. That's how folks come to be comfortable. Right now, I would not be surprised if your friend feels like the decision was made without taking proper interest and care with his concerns about the shift. Nobody likes to be railroaded.

You want to know how to try to get this guy on board? Back off. And I don't mean that you will shut up about it for now. I mean retract the decision. Right now, you're projecting the idea that you have already decided, and if he doesn't like it, that's his problem. Need I mention that's not normally how friends act? Instead, if you back off to, saying that you'll keep playing the current edition for now, and experiment with the new edition and look at reviews and such when it comes out, you may get a better response.

But you have to be sincere about it. You have to really intend to try to work with him to deal with his concerns so he can expect to have fun. And, you may not want to do that. And that's okay.

 

[Turjan]

Perhaps, thumbscrews will help ?

One reason I can imagine is that he doesn't want to experience any rules confusion. If he continues DMing 3.5, he might be afraid of mixing up rules when playing 4.0 at the same time.

On the other hand, wait till you are actually playing 4.0. Things might change - or not. That's life.