D&D 4E Is my friend's unwillingness to try 4e irrational?
- Thread starter Dragonblade
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Wolfspider
Explorer
Raduin711 said:
Eeeeyeeesh. They're friends for crying out loud. It's only natural to respect what your friend likes to do, even if it's different from what you enjoy doing... you almost make it sound like a sin for someone not to be excited about 4e and not wanting to be included in the game...
Gargoyle
Adventurer
I had a similar situation when I switched from 1E to 2E. One player just didn't want to go to the new rules, but the rest of us did.
I finally just told him "it's going to happen and if you don't want to play anymore we'll miss you." When he decided to play anyway, he got a bit childish and started complaining about the rules during the game, so I stopped the game and asked him to either try to have fun or please leave and let us have fun. At this point he sort of snapped out of it and learned to enjoy the new rules, or more accurately, he didn't let the rules get in the way of his enjoyment.
Players can do that. DM's are a different case. It is exceedingly hard for a DM to ignore rules they dislike and just enjoy the game. DM's want to be fair. They want to allow the players to have options. They want to challenge the players. They want to quickly design exciting adventures. They want rules that help them do all that. Not all DM's want all of these things equally...some will want to stick with 3.5...some are still using OD&D. That's fine as long as the DM is happy. I'd rather play in a 1E game with a DM that knows and is happy with those rules than a DM who runs 3.5 and doesn't know the rules or ignores or houserules half of the system, or one who doesn't spend much time preparing because they don't enjoy the ruleset.
I think the edition you play is primarily a DM decision.
But you know, I'd rather play or run any version of D&D than to not play at all...sometimes it's good to compromise.
I finally just told him "it's going to happen and if you don't want to play anymore we'll miss you." When he decided to play anyway, he got a bit childish and started complaining about the rules during the game, so I stopped the game and asked him to either try to have fun or please leave and let us have fun. At this point he sort of snapped out of it and learned to enjoy the new rules, or more accurately, he didn't let the rules get in the way of his enjoyment.
Players can do that. DM's are a different case. It is exceedingly hard for a DM to ignore rules they dislike and just enjoy the game. DM's want to be fair. They want to allow the players to have options. They want to challenge the players. They want to quickly design exciting adventures. They want rules that help them do all that. Not all DM's want all of these things equally...some will want to stick with 3.5...some are still using OD&D. That's fine as long as the DM is happy. I'd rather play in a 1E game with a DM that knows and is happy with those rules than a DM who runs 3.5 and doesn't know the rules or ignores or houserules half of the system, or one who doesn't spend much time preparing because they don't enjoy the ruleset.
I think the edition you play is primarily a DM decision.
But you know, I'd rather play or run any version of D&D than to not play at all...sometimes it's good to compromise.
AZRogue
Explorer
Wolfspider said:
I don't think either extreme is happening here.
There's nothing wrong with them wanting their friend to continue playing with them. There's also nothing wrong with him not wanting to.
I think the advise to just leave it be and move on is the best. If he wants to still play, he will. If not, at least they're still friends.
Dragonblade said:At this point our group is scratching our heads. We would really like him to play with us and have offered to remove cost as a barrier to entry when he gave that as his initial reason to not play. Some of us can't help but feel that he is now being completely irrational and childish about the whole thing.
One of our members theorizes that Bob is avoiding 4e because he is afraid that he will actually like it and then will no longer be able to enjoy playing with his other friends. Another theory is that he is avoiding it because he is afraid his other group (which sounds very grognardian when he describes them to us) will view him as a 3.5 "traitor".
You know, this is very very similar to a post I made, say.. 4-5 years ago on a different subject. Someone said (paraphrased) "Well, she has the right to be irrational and childish about it. It's her life."
I thought "Obviously. I wasn't ever questioning the person's right to choose, but rather asking for advice on alternative ways to get to the person, to come to an understanding."
It really depends on whether your friend wants to open up communication. I really didn't get any other advice. My best advice is to keep the door open, and hope your friend will come in and actually join you in a 2-way conversation. Or as they say, it takes two to tango.
P.S. the post in question's subject was on something completely different than gaming, but I think it's it's amazing how much of a parallel it shows. In hindsight, I always was bothered by the response, now realizing it's because the person assumed I had an ulterior motive, which was rather insulting,
mattcolville
Adventurer
There's no moral imperative to be rational. If he doesn't have a reason, that's fine.
Some people are haters, I work with a couple of people who's first reaction to...well, everything, is to hate it. Some people instantly turn off as soon as someone else turns on. I have friends whom will instantly vow never to watch or read something if you tell them they'll love it. Well, that's not true. It was true, when we were younger but they all seem to have gotten over that.
And some issues are polarizing. You're enthusiasm may brook no middle ground and so he, without consciously deciding to do so, is pushed in the opposite direction.
Some people are haters, I work with a couple of people who's first reaction to...well, everything, is to hate it. Some people instantly turn off as soon as someone else turns on. I have friends whom will instantly vow never to watch or read something if you tell them they'll love it. Well, that's not true. It was true, when we were younger but they all seem to have gotten over that.
And some issues are polarizing. You're enthusiasm may brook no middle ground and so he, without consciously deciding to do so, is pushed in the opposite direction.
Dragonblade
Adventurer
AZRogue said:
Yes, you make some excellent points. The crux of the matter is Bob is a good friend and he'll always be welcome whether he likes 4e or not. We've accepted it and we aren't badgering him about it or anything. I was hoping that people on the boards might have some interesting insights and I have gotten some great responses.
But some of the most insightful are those of you who seem to be taking this thread awfully personally in your identification with Bob and villification of the rest of us. As if you feel personally betrayed by 4e or anyone who intends on switching. Perhaps that is how Bob views it as well. Well he won't say and I don't want to bug him about it.
Its unfortunate that he views it that way, if that is the real issue. But I guess we'll just move forward and hope that he changes his mind. We'll have a PHB waiting for him if he does.
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