D&D 5E Is "Mystic" a bad class name?

[Sunseeker]

Well, a sorcerer was another term for "magic-user" until 3e rolled along. D&D class names are generic until they mean something specific. Mystics and Mystical powers right now are a generic term (like sorcerer and sorcery was in 2e) but soon it will refer to a specific type of mystical ability and user.

That, of course, is the problem with re-using a well defined word: it brings connotation with it. Warlord had a similar problem. However, the alternative is a made up word that has no connotation, but sounds artificial. Using natural English words has a ring to our ears ("A ranger, bard, mystic, and warlord all entered the dungeon") that invokes an image or expectation (rightly or wrongly), vs. a name that is basically game terminology ("A duskblade, psion, spellthief, and runecaster all entered a dungeon") which sounds fake but doesn't invoke any preconceived notion.

I'm a bit too tired to write much, but suffice to say, I agree...and disagree.

 

[pemerton]

For most of D&D's history, magic hasn't had a source, it just is.

No disagreement with your comments about Krynn and Mystara, but I don't agree with what I've quoted.

Here is the relevant passage (AD&D DMG, p 40):

All magic and cleric spells are similar in that the word sounds, when combined into whatever patterns are applicable, are charged with energy from the Positive or Negative Material Plane. When uttered, these sounds cause the release of this energy, which in turn triggers a set reaction. The release of the energy contained in these words is what causes the spell to be forgotten or the writing to disappear from the surface upon which it is written.

The triggering action draws power from some plane of the multiverse. . . . [T]here is a flow of energy - first from the spell caster, then from some plane to the area magicked or enspelled by the caster. The energy flow is not from the caster per se, it is from the utterance of the sounds, each of which is charged with energy which is loosed when the proper formula and/or ritual is completed with their utterance. This power then taps the desired plane (whether or not the spell user has any idea of what or where it is) to cause the spell to function. . . .

When spell energy is released, it usually flows to the Prime Material from the Positive or Negative Material Plane. . . .

Release of word/sound-stored energy is not particularly debilitating to the spell caster, as he or she has gathered this energy over a course of time prior to the loosing of the power. It comes from outside the spell caster, not from his or her own vital essence. The power to activate even a first level spell would leave a spell caster weak and shaking if it were drawn from his or her personal energy, and a third level spell would most certainly totally drain the caster’s body of life!

Because spells tap power from other planes, any improper casting is likely to cause the spell not to function . . . or to malfunction . . . Such happenings are covered in the various chances for spell malfunction. If your players inquire as to how spells work, or fail to do so, you can explain, without difficulty, the precepts of the AD&D magic spell systems.​

Magic absolutely had a source in AD&D!

The Weave is just the Forgotten Realms name for the magical interface that allow you to use the magic in the multiverse. There are no special rules for it. The only thing that is official is that there is an interface between the raw ambient magic that fills everything (or if you prefer to take a more scientific angle, just say that this "raw magic" is mass-energy), and the spellcaster's will.

<snip>

So no real change. Clarification or codification, but it doesn't invalidate prior lore or force any specifics.

The Weave is very specific, and quite different from the AD&D lore that I just quoted. From the Basic PDF (p 81):

The worlds within the D&D multiverse are magical places. All existence is suffused with magical power, and potential energy lies untapped in every rock, stream, and living creature, and even in the air itself. Raw magic is the stuff of creation, the mute and mindless will of existence, permeating every bit of matter and present in every manifestation of energy throughout the multiverse.

Mortals can’t directly shape this raw magic. Instead, they make use of a fabric of magic, a kind of interface between the will of a spellcaster and the stuff of raw magic. . . .By any name, without the Weave, raw magic is locked away and inaccessible; the most powerful archmage can’t light a candle with magic in an area where the Weave has been torn. But surrounded by the Weave, a spellcaster can shape lightning to blast foes, transport hundreds of miles in the blink of an eye, or even reverse death itself.

All magic depends on the Weave, though different kinds of magic access it in a variety of ways. . . .

Whenever a magic effect is created, the threads of the Weave intertwine, twist, and fold to make the effect possible. When characters use divination spells such as detect magic or identify, they glimpse the Weave. A spell such as dispel magic smooths the Weave. Spells such as antimagic field rearrange the Weave so that magic flows around, rather than through, the area affected by the spell. And in places where the Weave is damaged or torn, magic works in unpredictable ways - or not at all.​

That's quite different from what Gygax wrote in his DMG. Just for starters, it locates magic in the world itself ("the stuff of creation") rather than in other planes; and the caster manipulates magic (via the weave) rather than channeling energy from another plane. That's real change. It's certainly not clarification of what Gygax wrote.

 

[Manbearcat]

That's quite different from what Gygax wrote in his DMG. Just for starters, it locates magic in the world itself ("the stuff of creation") rather than in other planes; and the caster manipulates magic (via the weave) rather than channeling energy from another plane. That's real change. It's certainly not clarification of what Gygax wrote.

Changing the canonical nature of magic and psionics in the material world and in the multiverse in one go? This is serous, serious business and makes me very, very angry. It is time for a 5 year siege where I document myself burning books and I barf forth an endless deluge of vitriol on every board I can find to make sure that this treachery and betrayal does not go unchallenged!

 

[Hussar]

yeah, it's already had several...

Google image "Mystic Character" and then "Psionic character".. Which term provides a more evocative image?

I'll take that challenge. These are three of the first five (I dropped the two that were ginormous image files) images that came up when I googled Mystic Character:

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And these are three of the first four that came up when I googled Psionic Character: /edit to add, the second one is an Erudite but apparently I can't link it. So I put in number 4.

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Hrm, two Wayne Reynolds pieces, which I loathe and something from the WOTC site that doesn't look like any psionic I've ever heard of.

Thinking Mystic won this little contest. At least with my personal Google history.

 

[MoonSong]

Ok, I googled "psychic character".

Edit: Ok, I suck at linking, please google "psychic character", not as evocative, but indeed you won't confuse these guys with run of the mill wizards.

 

[Remathilis]

Heh. I OWN that Halloween costume that is pic one. I is a Mystic nao!

 

[Hussar]

Heh. I OWN that Halloween costume that is pic one. I is a Mystic nao!

Heh, yeah, that first one's a bit lame. But the next two aren't bad at all and I can certainly see a psionic character from either of them. Particularly the third one. That first one with the bag full of crystals is so blatantly WAR that I just can't be asked to even consider it. I really don't like WAR stuff anymore. It wasn't so bad but, now that he's the poster boy for all things Paizo, I'm just rather tired of it now.

And what the heck are those glowing, floating rune things?

 

[Remathilis]

ok someone send this list to Mearls and ask him if number 18 is the charm.

Try the same experiment with "knight" and "shaman" and see how many hits you get.

Certain names (that weren't claimed by the core classes) have long histories of being reused for all sorts of similar concepts. They are either meditative/contemplative types (1, 4, 5, 6, 9) or they were divine casters of some stripe (2, 3, 7, 9, 14, 15, 17). Of course, a few deserve special call out (Masque of the Red Death's was a Victorian Medium/Spiritualist, very close to the psionic is concept, PO's Mystic kit is a generalized version of 2e wizard kit, and the mystic wanderer was a 3e update of F&A's mystic class in prc form; reducing the concept count a bit).

The point: mystic has been used to describe a bunch of similar concepts with wildly different executions. I don't see this as anything different other than turning the "meditative divine caster" concept into "meditative psionics user".

 

[MoonSong]

The point: mystic has been used to describe a bunch of similar concepts with wildly different executions. I don't see this as anything different other than turning the "meditative divine caster" concept into "meditative psionics user".

But this is more turn "meditative divine caster" into "the one and ONLY psionics user."

 

[Remathilis]

But this is more turn "meditative divine caster" into "the one and ONLY psionics user."

How many do you need?

There were eight 3.5 psionic classes (psion, wilder, soulknife, psychic warrior, erudite, ardent, divine mind, and lurk). Most of them are fairly Forgettable. I really can't say that anyone of them will be missed, since most of them were the "psionic X" class anyway (ardent = psionic cleric, psion = psionic wizard, wilder = psionic sorcerer, psywar = psionic gish, etc). Immortal Mystics pretty much soak up PsyWar and DivMind as the warrior/psionic "Jedi" builds; Awakened and Invisible Hand Mystics will probably absorb the best of the psion, erudite, wilder and ardent up as the caster equivalent classes, and the Knife Mystics has soulknife and lurk written all over it for sneakies.

And meditation and such has been in the psionics DNA since the method of recovering psionic strength points was developed in AD&D.

Really, ignoring one or two oddities from RotGrub's list, most of the mystics in D&D's history have tried to mimic the contemplative meditative aesthetic concept. Its usually used divine magic to do so because psionics has been fringe and usually ignored. They are marrying the concept of the introspective mystic with psionics rather than divine magic this time.

Again, its not the route I probably would have chose, but it doesn't offend me that they are doing so.