D&D 5E Is "Mystic" a bad class name?

Thief is still a rogue and the wizard is still a wizard. I don't understand why you would expect me to criticize those two class names when they haven't changed since 2e.

So, it's okay to change names, so long as we do it long enough ago? And, note, a thief was a thief in 2e, it's just that the umbrella term of rogue appeared for thieves and bards. A wizard wasn't a wizard, he was a mage.

Look, again, you've asked the question and the question was answered. You might not like the answer but that doesn't make it wrong. There is a reason we don't call Rogues "Covert Operatives" and Artificers "Bio-mechanical Engineers" and Clerics "Theologians". Those names don't fit in a fantasy game. They are too modern, despite being entirely accurate. Psion or Psionicist is an SF term used by SF writers to add magic powers to their otherwise SF setting. IMO, it doesn't really fit in a fantasy setting. It's too modern. It's jarring and it was a bad idea twenty years ago and it's still a bad idea now. ((The name I mean, not the mechanics))

A mystic is a name that fits perfectly well in a fantasy setting. You asked about finding pictures of mystics and the first five Google image images I got were fantasy works. When I looked up Psionic character, I got D&D art. Understandable. The first fifteen or so images that come up on my Google Image search are all D&D works. The first non-D&D specific psionic character that comes up is this one:

psionic_by_adamkuczek-d6z4wfa.jpg


See, this is what I think of when someone says Psionicist.

/edit - I changed the image because I took a second look and THIS was the actual first non-D&D psionic character image.
 

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That image is in no way what I think of when I think of Psionicist since every DnD book dealing with psionics set the fantasy tone, for me it was always a fantasy term, not sci-fi.

I think also with the names of the other classes there was a sort of progression. So the thief which was under the rogue group in 2e gained it as it's name from 3rd edition. For the Mystic it seems a somewhat abrupt change from the earlier progression of psionicist to psion.

But that's the thing. A DnD psionicist is a DnD only thing. It doesn't appear anywhere else. For the larger world, psionics is an SF term.

As far as I can see, the only thing psionicist has going for it is inertia. That's the name they used before so that's why we should use it now? Lore for lore's sake? Empty tradition? Is that really a good enough reason?
 

Thing is, they do use magic. It's just called psionics. Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, possibly tastes like duck to mind flayers.

There isn't that much distance between psionics and Magic and never has been. The fact that numerous spells and powers overlap and always have is evidence of that.
 

Thing is, they do use magic. It's just called psionics. Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, possibly tastes like duck to mind flayers.

There isn't that much distance between psionics and Magic and never has been. The fact that numerous spells and powers overlap and always have is evidence of that.

There's a very specific distance and difference in functionality, though, which makes the differentiation worthwhile and is part of the appeal of the class for some players. Including new players, I'd note (in my personal experience, of course).

Overlap isn't evidence of much because it's more the result of specific game mechanics leading to "convergent evolution" more than anything else.

So pushing it towards being regarded as "merely a kind of magic", whilst definitely possessing a sort of "everything in the right box!" cleaning-up-the-garage kind of appeal, isn't really helpful. That's kind of a side-issue, though.

In the context of whether Mystic is a good name, well, I don't think it has a huge amount of bearing. The name "Mystic" is really going to divide D&D players into three groups:

1) Players who remember what a Mystic was in earlier editions, which is to say, some kind of light/no armour-wearing quasi-hippy-ish spellcaster, who may or may not have been a faux-pacifist, and probably had various New Age-ish abilities.

For them, this name is going to cause initial confusion, because this class is very far from that, and indeed encompasses some pretty macho armoured melee types and the like. Anyone who has been playing that long likely can handle class name changes, though.

2) Players who've vaguely heard of a "Mystic" class but don't know much about it. But they do likely know it's not the same as a Psion or Psionicist or Psychic Warrior or the like. They're likely to be a bit confuzzled too.

3) Players who've never heard of a Mystic class and have no idea what it is. I don't expect them having much trouble accepting that it's a catch-all psionic class, as most psionic types in fantasy (and even SF) fiction are to some extent mystical (as in a bit vague and New Age-y, rather than all books, beards, staffs and shouting like wizard-types or religious like cleric-types).

Personally, as someone who loves Psions and Psychic Warriors, and who has also played Mystics in RC D&D and in 2E AD&D, I think it's fine as a name. It's not stellar, and it follows the very mildly unfortunate (imo) trait of 5E in using up existing names for very different things (thus likely causing confusion and minor issues down the line when said thing inevitably makes it's return), but it's not horrible.

The only real problem I see with it is that when most people hear Mystic, D&D-player and not alike, they think New Age, they think vague and wobbly, they think of monks up mountains and tie-dyed long-haired types, they don't really think of badass warriors with psychic powers. Yet that's one of the main uses this class is likely to be put to.

That said, what are the alternatives? Psychic? Worse than Mystic. Calls to mind charlatans and generally seems retro in a bad way. Psion? Meh. Tells you nothing unless you're already a D&D player and even then it's a bit vague. Pillars of Eternity called essentially the same thing Cipher, but using a name like that requires you to then explain what that is and how it fits into the setting, which is kind of a big deal (perfect for Pillars, of course).

So we have Mystic - which is vague, unenlightening and New-Age-y, but does at least relate to what they do, and does allow them to be fit into settings pretty easily because it doesn't establish them as something weird. So I think it works. Gets my vote anyway, and I'm very surprised to say that but...

(My only real concern with the class remains the needless and ill-fitting connection to the rather passe-seeming Far Realm)
 
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But that's the thing. A DnD psionicist is a DnD only thing. It doesn't appear anywhere else. For the larger world, psionics is an SF term.

As far as I can see, the only thing psionicist has going for it is inertia. That's the name they used before so that's why we should use it now? Lore for lore's sake? Empty tradition? Is that really a good enough reason?

But mystic has a lot of counter inertia.

There's a very specific distance and difference in functionality, though, which makes the differentiation worthwhile and is part of the appeal of the class for some players. Including new players, I'd note (in my personal experience, of course).

Overlap isn't evidence of much because it's more the result of specific game mechanics leading to "convergent evolution" more than anything else.

So pushing it towards being regarded as "merely a kind of magic", whilst definitely possessing a sort of "everything in the right box!" cleaning-up-the-garage kind of appeal, isn't really helpful. That's kind of a side-issue, though.

In the context of whether Mystic is a good name, well, I don't think it has a huge amount of bearing. The name "Mystic" is really going to divide D&D players into three groups:

1) Players who remember what a Mystic was in earlier editions, which is to say, some kind of light/no armour-wearing quasi-hippy-ish spellcaster, who may or may not have been a faux-pacifist, and probably had various New Age-ish abilities.

For them, this name is going to cause initial confusion, because this class is very far from that, and indeed encompasses some pretty macho armoured melee types and the like. Anyone who has been playing that long likely can handle class name changes, though.

2) Players who've vaguely heard of a "Mystic" class but don't know much about it. But they do likely know it's not the same as a Psion or Psionicist or Psychic Warrior or the like. They're likely to be a bit confuzzled too.

3) Players who've never heard of a Mystic class and have no idea what it is. I don't expect them having much trouble accepting that it's a catch-all psionic class, as most psionic types in fantasy (and even SF) fiction are to some extent mystical (as in a bit vague and New Age-y, rather than all books, beards, staffs and shouting like wizard-types or religious like cleric-types).

Personally, as someone who loves Psions and Psychic Warriors, and who has also played Mystics in RC D&D and in 2E AD&D, I think it's fine as a name. It's not stellar, and it follows the very mildly unfortunate (imo) trait of 5E in using up existing names for very different things (thus likely causing confusion and minor issues down the line when said thing inevitably makes it's return), but it's not horrible.

The only real problem I see with it is that when most people hear Mystic, D&D-player and not alike, they think New Age, they think vague and wobbly, they think of monks up mountains and tie-dyed long-haired types, they don't really think of badass warriors with psychic powers. Yet that's one of the main uses this class is likely to be put to.

That said, what are the alternatives? Psychic? Worse than Mystic. Calls to mind charlatans and generally seems retro in a bad way. Psion? Meh. Tells you nothing unless you're already a D&D player and even then it's a bit vague. Pillars of Eternity called essentially the same thing Cipher, but using a name like that requires you to then explain what that is and how it fits into the setting, which is kind of a big deal (perfect for Pillars, of course).

So we have Mystic - which is vague, unenlightening and New-Age-y, but does at least relate to what they do, and does allow them to be fit into settings pretty easily because it doesn't establish them as something weird. So I think it works. Gets my vote anyway, and I'm very surprised to say that but...

(My only real concern with the class remains the needless and ill-fitting connection to the rather passe-seeming Far Realm)

Maybe it is an age thing, but Psychic has a clear meaning for Pokemon and Yugioh players, and it is more "powerful cool thing" than phony charlatan. The term psychic pops up liberally in contemporary fantasy. I can even remember an anime about mystic warriors were only some of them were psychics, and how two of them once fought a battle to decide "who was the better psychic". Even one very mystic and meditative character who was "closest to god" asked help from this psychic guy because "His psychic powers are unmatched".
 

Maybe it is an age thing, but Psychic has a clear meaning for Pokemon and Yugioh players, and it is more "powerful cool thing" than phony charlatan. The term psychic pops up liberally in contemporary fantasy. I can even remember an anime about mystic warriors were only some of them were psychics, and how two of them once fought a battle to decide "who was the better psychic". Even one very mystic and meditative character who was "closest to god" asked help from this psychic guy because "His psychic powers are unmatched".

You know that's an interesting point. I wonder how many of the younger generation of RPGers and potential RPGers have played those. Pretty sure none of the 20-something 5E players I know were into them, but that's the UK.

Re: contemporary fantasy, to what are you referring? I see contemporary fantasy novels and western fantasy games going to some fairly extreme lengths to avoid using the term (it does come up occasionally c.f. WoW's "Psychic Horror" for example), i.e. inventing new words for the same thing, using different words, and so on. Particularly I've only seen it used in recent stuff as an adjective (as in "Psychic Horror" for example), not as a noun describing a person's role/job (except where charlatan is implied), which is what we're discussing here.
 

The Unearthed Arcana offers the Mystic as a psionic full class.

But many psi fans still need psionic options that use normal mechanics, and these work best as archetypes of classes.

This just screams "OGL Third Party Project". I don't see a need for Wizards to give us two different psionic systems, but its a great place for a independent publisher to step in and fill the void.
 

This just screams "OGL Third Party Project". I don't see a need for Wizards to give us two different psionic systems, but its a great place for a independent publisher to step in and fill the void.

Wait. You got what you want. So now other players cant have what they want?

That isnt how D&D works.
 

Wait. You got what you want. So now other players cant have what they want?

That isnt how D&D works.

Ask any 4e fan if that's how it works.

One thing I can say is that with WotC's limited manpower, I doubt they have the time or resources to design two fully functional psionic systems, especially when they are going use one as "default" anyway. They're not going to invent the wheel twice. Your best hope is for a 3rd party to come in and make a psionic-magic system, complete with the Psion, Sci-fi nomenclature, etc.

Sorry.
 


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