D&D 5E Is "Mystic" a bad class name?

[Hussar]

I get the impression that some players who want ‘psionics’ to have Hindu flavor, do so because they want psionics to be weird (and exotic) and they think Hindus are weird (and exotic).

It seems a replay of ‘Asia is different’. So Samurai has to be different from Fighter.

The fact is, all humans have minds, and therefore, any human can be psionic.

Stop trying to remove peoples brain.

The alienation by means of the Far Realms seems a similar hostility against D&D players who want psionic characters.

Likewising reserving psionics for monsters only.

Psionics is a persons own mind. Nothing else. Human. (And other beings whose minds resemble human minds.)

You do realise that this is your personal interpretation of this and is not actually based on anything published for the D&D game over the past 40 years right? In 1e, using Psionics could summon extra planar creatures. So, it seems like the tie to Far Realms isn't quite so far fetched as that. Given that there wasn't any Far Realms back then, they instead tied it to demons and devils. And the chance wasn't exactly rare either. The chances were, over the long run, pretty darn good that if you used psionics, something big and extra planar was going to come and drag you down into Hell.

 

[Yaarel]

And mystics and sorcerers would be the same.

The reallife words ‘mystic’ and ‘sorcerer’ have different meanings and connotations.

A mystic is someone who contemplates the transcendent aspects of reality, to ‘unite’ with infinity. Compare Hindu ‘Neti Neti’ tradition, Buddhist ‘Nirvana’ or ‘Nibana’, Catholic ‘dark night of the soul’, and so on. These examples are reallife religious traditions, but what they all have in common is something like a dissatisfaction with religious traditions, often described as superficial ‘clothing’, and they desire to personally experience infinity, including ones own infinite aspects of consciousness. A common sentiment is the mystics from different religions ‘meet at the top’.

Unrelatedly, the word ‘sorcery’ is specifically to influence otherworldly spirits (by means of promises, threats, etcetera) to perform a supernatural phenomenon. Normally, sorcery refers to black magic, such as sending a demon to do harm to some one. But strictly, the word can refer to other kinds of spirits, such as ghosts or elementals or whatever, and is not necessarily malevolent.

The sorcerous reliance on external spirits is the opposite of psionic.

In D&D, the Sorcerer class is a misnomer, representing ‘innate’ magical abilities. But perhaps even here, the Sorcerer relies on external sources of magic, such as a Dragon ancestor, elemental spirits, etcetera. While the Sorcerer is in tune with these external agencies of magic, they are still external sources. Perhaps this can explain why Sorcerers still need external material components, and so on.

By contrast, for the psionic person, there are no external agencies. Marvels are by means of the mind of the psionic.

 

[Yaarel]

You do realise that this is your personal interpretation of this and is not actually based on anything published for the D&D game over the past 40 years right? In 1e, using Psionics could summon extra planar creatures.

Here is the definition of ‘psionics’ in D&D 1e. It comes from the original Players Handbook, in the Psionics section.

"
Psionics are various powers derived from the brain. They enable characters to perform in ways which resemble magical abilities.

"

The origin of psionics is the ‘brain’. Psionics is entirely naturalistic. Humans can do it by being human.

Of course, a human can use natural psionic abilities to telepathically contact the mind of an other being, even if that mind is in some other plane of existence. Ultimately the consciousness of a human transcends space-time.

The person oneself is the source, origin, and cause of these magic-like effects.

 

[aramis erak]

Here is the definition of ‘psionics’ in D&D 1e. It comes from the original Players Handbook, in the Psionics section.

"
Psionics are various powers derived from the brain. They enable characters to perform in ways which resemble magical abilities.

"

The origin of psionics is the ‘brain’. Psionics is entirely naturalistic. Humans can do it by being human.

Of course, a human can use natural psionic abilities to telepathically contact the mind of an other being, even if that mind is in some other plane of existence. Ultimately the consciousness of a human transcends space-time.

The person oneself is the source, origin, and cause of these magic-like effects.

Note: that's not the first appearance... because what so many fail to remember is two edition precede it... Which only mentions origination for fighters: "Fighting Men with psionic ability are basically attuned to the powers commonly known here as Yoga."

 

[Yaarel]

A Hindu Yogi has a brain. Therefore, a Yogi can be psionic. The reference to ‘Yoga’ and the ‘Fighting Man’ class, essentially corresponds to 3e Psychometabolism. It is the power of mind-over-body to achieve extraordinary physical stunts and other amazing bodily transformations.

Of course, many cultures (most?) from Nordic to Native American to Japan express a concept of mind-over-body. The Hindus use their mind to walk on coals and redirect rivers. The Nordics use their mind to shapeshift into a wolf and to mess with the minds of others. Pretty much everyone use their mind to foresee the future and elsewhere. In 5e, the idea of psionic mastery of the body corresponds to the Immortal Mystic.



Maybe it is necessary to spell this out explicitly for other readers: a reallife Hindu yogi has nothing to do with Cthulhu. The Far Realms are irrelevant.

In D&D, the origin of psionics is the mind, especially the mind of a human brain.

 

[pemerton]

The reallife words ‘mystic’ and ‘sorcerer’ have different meanings and connotations.

They're not synonyms. My point was that, if one focuses on etymology (as did the person to whom I was replying in the post of mine that you quoted), then both mystics and sorcerers are concerned with oracular apprehension of hidden truths.

Thesaurus.com gives "sorcerous" as another word for "mystic" used adjectively, but does not give "sorcerer" as a synonym for the noun "mystic" - but prophet, seer, sage, guru, swami, yogi and fakir are all offered as synonyms, and sorcery can certainly connote fortune-telling.

Certainly the word "mystic" can be used in the way you describe, especially if one emphasises religious/theological mysticism. That said, "sorcery" need not lack a religious/theological foundation. In the RPG (rather than real) world, Gloranthan sorcerers are also religious/theological mystics.

Here is the OED on "mystic":

any person who seeks by contemplation and self-surrender to obtain union with or absorption into God, or who believes in the spiritual apprehension of truths which are beyond the intellect; a person who has or seeks mystical experiences.​

And on "sorcerer"

One who practises sorcery; a wizard, a magician.​

It defines "sorcery" as

The use of magic or enchantment; the practice of magic arts; witchcraft.​

A user of magic or enchantments might certainly be someone who believes in the spiritual apprehension of truths which are beyond the intellect, and who seeks out such mystic experiences! Although they are not synonyms, in the context of fantasy RPGing they don't pick out obviously contrasting archetypes either. The decision to use sorcerer, wizard, warlock, druid, mystic, etc as names for distinct types of magic-users is a technical decision, not one that has its basis in word-meaning (back in the old days, after all, sorcerers, wizards and warlocks were just differing levels of magic-use!).

 

[Mercule]

In D&D, the origin of psionics is the mind, especially the mind of a human brain.

And, in 1E, elves couldn't have psionics, IIRC.

I believe the transition from 1E "brain powered" to 5E "Far Realms" was, essentially:
Mind Flayers eat brains, so they're psionic.
We added categories to every monster, so Mind Flayers are aberrations.
Aberrations have little in common besides being weird, let's give them a common origin in the Far Realms.
Hmm.... lots of psionic creatures are psionic, so psionics must come from the Far Realms.

Of course, that completely ignores the fact that many (most?) demons and devils also had psionics. It used to be a way to make off-beat, but powerful thing more off-beat and powerful.

 

[epithet]

Mystic is pretty much perfect.

Look, it's one thing for us to call a practitioner a psion, since we all know what it means. In the overwhelming majority of D&D settings, however, the fictional population wouldn't have a clue what that word means. Even those who have psionic ability awaken within themselves would probably not think of it in terms of the power of their brains. Illithid, of course, would understand it perfectly, but asking them to explain your psionic abilities to you would land you on the menu.

The worlds of D&D are filled with magic, and even those with no ability to use magic will still hear about it and know (or think they know) what it is from the fireside tales they grow up hearing. Who on Oerth hasn't heard of the great Mordenkainen? Psionic ability, however, is rare in almost all of them. There are probably only a tiny fraction of D&D campaigns that have a PC or significant NPC with psionic ability. Psionics are mysterious and their practitioners mystical.

The exception might be Dark Sun campaigns, since on Athas arcane magic has been heavily flavored with the whole despoiler thing. "The Way" serves as a mechanic by which "magic" classes can still function without magic, so instead of being a mystic you'd just be a bard, or a trickster rogue, or whatever.

If an NPC in the World of Greyhawk or the Forgotten Realms describes to your player characters a person or group able to perform seemingly magical tasks without casting a spell, is that NPC more likely to call the practitioner of these arts a psion, or a mystic?

I understand the urge to hold on to the terminology from the days of Gygax, but just as we've come up with better names for classes that use magic than "Magic User," I think "Mystic" is a better term for a class that uses psionics than "Psion."

 

[SpikeTailDrake]

I prefer "psion" but "mystic" is alright.

 

[Yaarel]

How would people feel if the ‘Psion’ is the name for the Telepath, the Awakened Mystic?

Psion Mystic (Telepathy/Enchantment, Clairsentience/Divination)
Immortal Mystic (Psychometabolism/Transmutation, Psychoportation, Psychic Warrior, Healer)
Force Mystic (Telekinesis, Fly, Force Field, Force Damage, Magic Energy, Evocation/Elements)
Blade Mystic (Soulknife, Lurker)