Is PHB 2 really "Core?"

[Oni]

I'm not really sure why it would be confusing anyway. If I'm interested in something and it has a big old 2 on the cover, my first impulse is going to be to look for book 1.

 

[Glyfair]

Yeah, I hate it too. I think it has the potential to be frustratingly confunsing to a new player.

Potential, but the non-new player is really the one most likely to be confused. They don't have the same preconceptions of "core" that some experienced players do.

A good friend of mine taught me that before you have an argument that you define your terms. Nothing is as pointless as arguing for hours and realizing you both agree but were using different definitions for the same word.

In this case, there are plenty of definitions possible for "core" from an RPG POV. I have heard it used for the bare minimum books required to play an RPG. I have heard it used only for books that have all that's needed to play an RPG (in which case D&D has no core books outside of BD&D). I have heard it used for books that aren't tied to a specific campaign setting.

Any of these definitions are used and assuming that you are both using the same definition is asking for confusion. An experienced player may get in the habit of one definition because his circle use just that definition. A new player won't be tainted by that experience. He may think one definition is more likely than another, but he won't assume.

In fact, if he went to the D&D website and looked at "core" products he would see many more than just the PHB I (and would have since at least 3.5).

Another "very minor thing" that I absolutely hate everytime I read is the PHB sections on "what you need to play", and they list D&D miniatures there. I hate this so much, because when I started playing, back at 2001 (I think) with the original d20 Star Wars core rulebook (yeah, talk about unortodox start), I had absolutely NO idea how to play the game, and I remember to be very confused by the fact that all I needed was one single book and some dice. But there it was, in the "what you need to play" section, that was it.

Now, someone with the same knowledge I read there would read and ask for the miniatures price on the store, and be VERY confused on the booster model of business. And I can tell you that, if that was me, I would never look at RPG again because of how expensive it was. I didn't have a friend who played for years to tell me "don't worry, it's only marketing".

Of course, today said person wouldn't even open the book, probably, because they would be confused and outraged at how many "core" books you need to play.

So yeah, it might be a minor thing, but I hate it, because I'm sure it would have driven me away if it was like that when I picked up my first rpg book.[/QUOTE]

 

[mach1.9pants]

PHB2 is 100% core as is pretty much everything else in 4E.

The confusion for new players is nothing new. I remember, when I was still playing BECMI, I saw the FR campaign box set in our local bookshop (in the good old days when DnD books were actually available to buy in a normal bookstore!). It was in a box therefore must be rules and playable on its own, right? Wrong, I didn't buy it, but it took me a couple of visits to it and lots of thought and reading to figure out it wasn't what I thought it was.
If you know nothing about RPGs 'core' doesn't mean diddly to you one way or the other. All the DnD books (like the FR box) have 'you need PHB,DMG,etc' to use this book. It is no more or less confusing than it has ever been for a complete newbie. The core thing is a fuss about nothing IMO, it is a win for everyone: WotC (hopefully) gets to sell more books 'cos grumpy DMs have less excuse to ban books and we get support for more of those splats etc (i.e. we will see swordmage stuff in all sorts of products not just FR products).

 

[Remathilis]

Do you have a source for this?

Checking Amazon:

"Player's Handbook 2: A 4th Edition D&D Core Rulebook"
"Arcane Power: A 4th Edition D&D Supplement "
"Forgotten Realms Player's Guide: A 4th Edition D&D Supplement"

So while Remathilis breaks Supplements into General and Campaign, ge is still correct as far as I can tell about what WotC is promoting as Core.

Edit: Checking the covers on the WotC website:
"Monster Manual 2//Roleplaying Game Core Rules"
"Eberron Player's Guide//Roleplaying Game Supplement"
"Arcane Power//Roleplaying Game Supplement"

Thanks Vyvyan,

I had thought the FRCG had "Roleplaying Game Setting" not "Supplement" on it, but I was wrong; the FR books are in fact SUPPLEMENTS. Still, I was pretty close for not having my books on me.

 

[jmucchiello]

In 1981, with very limited funds, I asked for the Blue Box Expert set for Christmas, thinking that I would simply skip Basic and go straight to Expert. Nothing in the Sears Catalog indicated this would be a problem. Fortunately, my birthday is close enough after Christmas that I didn't need to wait long for a playable game. No matter what you do, someone will make a mistake.

But that was the Sears Catalog leading you astray. The blue Expert D&D boxset says "For use with the D&D Basic set" right on the cover. And on the back of the box it says "STOP! Read this before purchase! (etc)" with a similar disclaimer. Had you looked at it in a store you would not have made the same mistake.

 

[Dice4Hire]

That is a problem for me too, as I now own half of the Swordmage, the Arcane Power side. And that is not to mention the Dragon stuff, or even mroe oddly, the power cards put into the player's option miniatures. WOTC is doing a lot to make people buy mroe products, more than ever before.

Ok to do it, I guess, but I won't be happy if I get a lot more wasted stuff. I am a bit worried that Ebberon will ahve a divine class in it that will take up 20 pages of Divine Power, as I will buy DP, but not Ebberon.

 

[Mark]

Each annual PH(B), MM and DMG is core.

 

[Mephistopheles]

From an exchange I had on this topic in another thread I got the impression that WotC is also confused about it.

The covers of the FR books label them as supplements and the WotC product listing on their website lists them as accessories, but someone quoted some of the text in one of the FR books that states everything in them is core. Which is it?

 

[Ariosto]

If you know nothing about RPGs 'core' doesn't mean diddly to you one way or the other.

Or maybe if you're into another RPG but not in the d20-ish loop. Why not just make it totally Wizards and call additional books "booster packs"?

 

[Ariosto]

The Next Big Thing: The "collectible" RPG?

"Never mind editions; didn't anyone get the opportunity attack rules?"

"Uh, nope ... but we do have three different hit point systems. The 'rare' stacks nicely with this 'common' healing chapter."