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Is power attack too powerful?

If you think about it, Power Attack doesn't really scale as much as people assume.

What is the benefit of power attack? Extra damage.

When you're low level you can use PA to gain a little extra damage, but as you advance in level you can use it to gain more and more damage. This follows the trend for damage in general: At low levels your character does basic weapon damage plus a little bit of strength damage, but as you advance that damage increases in include greater strength, magic, other feats and other special abilities.

So as your base damage increases, your PA damage also increases. The rate at which they change is different, but they are both growing. So, as a percentage of total damage, power attack damage often does not change too much. Especially when we consider that the usual circumstance is that a fighter-type should not be full out power attacking in most battles.

Let me give you an example: A third level fighter with an 18 strength with his +1 2 handed sword power attacks for 3 points. His damage is 2d6 (average 7) + 1 magic + 6 strength + 6 power attack increase = 20. Power attack is 30% of that total damage. Now, consider a 15th level fighter with a 26 strength, a +4 holy (or flaming and shocking) two handed sword, weapon specialization, and +3 to damage from his cohort bard's song. His average damage without power attack is 2d6 (average 7) + 11 magic/holy/energy from the weapon + 12 strength +2 from specialization + 4 from bard song & other effects = 36 damage. He can power attack for between 2 and 30 points of damage. If he power attacks for 7, his average damage is 50 - so roughly 30% of his damage would come from power attack (the same as our third level fighter). If he power attacks for the maximum, his damage increases by 30, so roughly 45% of his 66 damage will come from the power attack, but power attacking for your maximum amount is a rare situation in most games. More ofthen than not, players power attack for 5 or 10 points instead of going 'balls to the wall' and all out power attacking.

In other words, for reasonable uses of power attack, the bonus damage as a percentage of total damage stays roughly the same throughout most of the life of the PC. Not exactly the same, but close enough that it doesn't throw balance way out of whack.
 

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Just thought I would throw in my Power Attack anecdote from tonights game.

My Character
Orc Fighter6
22STR
Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization on a +1 Sythe
Nothing else special, pretty run-of-the-mill.
All Power Attack All The Time!

Got a crit on a Gargantuan Centipede...
8d4+96 damage for the crit.

Thats rediculous for a 6th level character. Im gonna have to tone it down.

DS
 

Sabathius42 said:
Just thought I would throw in my Power Attack anecdote from tonights game.

My Character
Orc Fighter6
22STR
Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization on a +1 Sythe
Nothing else special, pretty run-of-the-mill.
All Power Attack All The Time!

Got a crit on a Gargantuan Centipede...
8d4+96 damage for the crit.

Thats rediculous for a 6th level character. Im gonna have to tone it down.

DS
I'll see your trick and double it.

Human fighter/barb, +2 dire pick (upsized pick from Complete Warrior), critted a 20 hp ftr/rogue for 100 + 4d10 = 125 points of damage. The player repeated this the next session with a 108 point crit on a 30 hp mage. My poor mooks....
 

Sabathius42 said:
Got a crit on a Gargantuan Centipede...
8d4+96 damage for the crit.

Thats rediculous for a 6th level character. Im gonna have to tone it down.

Quite right. It is best to outright disallow PCs from getting lucky. Keep them under your thumb where they belong. You do not want players believing their enjoyment of their carefully crafted and beloved characters is more important than the needs of an NPC you just pulled out of the MM 2 minutes ago.
 

Ridley's Cohort said:
Quite right. It is best to outright disallow PCs from getting lucky. Keep them under your thumb where they belong. You do not want players believing their enjoyment of their carefully crafted and beloved characters is more important than the needs of an NPC you just pulled out of the MM 2 minutes ago.
you'll want to limit class options as well for your players... I'd suggest only Commoners, and maybe Chief Bottle Washer, or Ditch Digger PrCs.
 

hong said:
I'll see your trick and double it.

Human fighter/barb, +2 dire pick (upsized pick from Complete Warrior), critted a 20 hp ftr/rogue for 100 + 4d10 = 125 points of damage. The player repeated this the next session with a 108 point crit on a 30 hp mage. My poor mooks....
Nothing to do with power attack, Even without the power attack both the ftr/rogue and the wizard were killed 4d10 +8 on average is 30 and you still have to add your STR bonus x 4 which I assume must be at least +2 for a fighter/Barbarian.

Maybe the crit x4 is broken but that is another story.
 


Liquidsabre said:
Right, crits shouldn't be used as an example for why Pwr Atk is broken.

Exactly.

A high strength raging barbarian with a boring old greataxe can kill a gargantuan centipede on a lucky hit without any powerattacking at all. High crit multipliers just muddy the discussion.
 

mikebr99 said:
you'll want to limit class options as well for your players... I'd suggest only Commoners, and maybe Chief Bottle Washer, or Ditch Digger PrCs.

Speaking of which, I recently decided to combine two reviously-unrelated occupations into a single skill: Profession (ditch digger) and Profession (grave digger) became Profession (digger). Yes, it was a hard choice.

(I actually had a heroic NPC with Profession (ditch digger) before this change. He was a typical commoner until he received his Call and became a paladin... longish story.)
 

CRGreathouse said:
Speaking of which, I recently decided to combine two reviously-unrelated occupations into a single skill: Profession (ditch digger) and Profession (grave digger) became Profession (digger). Yes, it was a hard choice.

(I actually had a heroic NPC with Profession (ditch digger) before this change. He was a typical commoner until he received his Call and became a paladin... longish story.)
Heh.. he probably rocked with all those synergy bonuses to digging into evil dirt. ;)

Mike
 

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