Is RPGing a *literary* endeavour?

[Bedrockgames]

Again, maybe this is because I play exclusively online. The images that I use in my game are rather painstakingly chosen or created. I could simply use an "O" with a circle around it for an orc, or, I could use a cool image for that orc that shows the players why they shouldn't just ignore said orc.

I play mainly online as well too. But this is actually one of my pet peeves as a player. Let me imagine the character based on the information you give, don't waste times showing me pictures of what they might look like. I will take how I imagine an NPC any day over stock art from the internet.

That's the basic difference, [MENTION=85555]Bedrockgames[/MENTION], that I'm talking about between content and performance. If a black and white line map a la Dyson Logos along with simple black and white letter tokens floats your boat, then, well, go for it. For me, it doesn't.

What is wrong with black and white line map art (particularly stuff by Dyson Logos)?

It is a game of imagination. I don't see why we need more than that to fuel the fun.

 

[pemerton]

Role playing, otoh, is attempting to portray some sort of character to the people at the table in such a way that the other people can get some sort of mental image of what you are. There's very little back and forth. It's primarily a performance. And that performance is judged by the people at the table. A player who is nothing but a dice bot with a heart beat is communicating excellently - he's playing the game. But, he's not someone I want at my table.

You seem to be setting up a contrast - performance intended to creata a mental image of who the PC is vs dice bot with a heart beat - that doesn't correspond to my own RPGing experiences.

Central to player-side RPGing is action declaration. That's how the player reveals who his/her PC is. Whereas being a dicebot suggests that someone else (perhaps the GM?) is deciding what the actions are.

Maybe you mostly play modules/pre-written adventures, where the action declarations are essentially established in advance by the adventure writer?

 

[Maxperson]

Performance is how you communicate that content to the players.

I don't agree with this. Performance can exist within D&D, but not all that is said is performance. Talking is how you communicate the content to the players. Performance would be if you add in voices, alter tones to try to convey different feelings, etc. If you're just reading a text box in a normal voice, even if there is descriptive language, it's not performance. The DM and players are also performing when they step into character and speak in first person, as opposed to saying that "My character Grok doesn't get it," or "The innkeeper says that he isn't going to explain it again."

Also, playing RPGs CAN be a literary endeavor or at least aspects of it can be. If the DM preps things in advance, including text boxes and such, that's a literary work. If the player is writing down things for his PC to say and do or recording what is done during gameplay on paper, that's literary work. It doesn't have to be a novel to qualify. Any essay, diary, or other written project. If the DM is running an improv type game where the DM and players are creating the content as they go, the result wouldn't be a literary work unless someone is recording it on paper.

 

[Satyrn]

I don't agree with this. Performance can exist within D&D, but not all that is said is performance. Talking is how you communicate the content to the players. Performance would be if you add in voices, alter tones to try to convey different feelings, etc. If you're just reading a text box in a normal voice, even if there is descriptive language, it's not performance. The DM and players are also performing when they step into character and speak in first person, as opposed to saying that "My character Grok doesn't get it," or "The innkeeper says that he isn't going to explain it again."

Yeah, that's a certain kind of performance, and that seems to be the one that everybody except Hussar is using.

He seems to be talking about performance the way you'd talk about an audio book's narrator or your performance reading a passage in English class. Something that could be better understood as delivery (although your delivery still constitutes a very modest performance).

 

[Hussar]

/snip
What is wrong with black and white line map art (particularly stuff by Dyson Logos)?

It is a game of imagination. I don't see why we need more than that to fuel the fun.

I loathe the Dyson Logos stuff. It's boring, dry and looks for too 80's for me. Give me a full color map a la Cartographer's Guild any day of the week. I ejected every single map from my Dragon Heist module and replaced them all. It's to the point where I'm really on the fence about the new Saltmarsh modules simply because of the inclusion of Dyson Logos cartography.

..............

Ok, ok. I give. I surrender. I was using "Performance" to mean delivery and presentation. Because, well, frankly, what is performance if it's not delivery and presentation? But, sure. Pick a bloody term that you like. We started with "literary", which no one understood what it meant, I proposed Performance, but, apparently, that's not right. So, fine. You folks pick a term, give me the definition and we'll discuss that.

Because all this back and forth semantic is a complete and utter waste of time. I explained the terms as I understood them. Can we at least pick words that you folks like and get back to the actual point instead of farting around with this?

Sheesh.

 

[Imaro]

I loathe the Dyson Logos stuff. It's boring, dry and looks for too 80's for me. Give me a full color map a la Cartographer's Guild any day of the week. I ejected every single map from my Dragon Heist module and replaced them all. It's to the point where I'm really on the fence about the new Saltmarsh modules simply because of the inclusion of Dyson Logos cartography.

..............

Ok, ok. I give. I surrender. I was using "Performance" to mean delivery and presentation. Because, well, frankly, what is performance if it's not delivery and presentation? But, sure. Pick a bloody term that you like. We started with "literary", which no one understood what it meant, I proposed Performance, but, apparently, that's not right. So, fine. You folks pick a term, give me the definition and we'll discuss that.

Because all this back and forth semantic is a complete and utter waste of time. I explained the terms as I understood them. Can we at least pick words that you folks like and get back to the actual point instead of farting around with this?

Sheesh.

I thought we were talking about presentation...

 

[Maxperson]

I loathe the Dyson Logos stuff. It's boring, dry and looks for too 80's for me. Give me a full color map a la Cartographer's Guild any day of the week. I ejected every single map from my Dragon Heist module and replaced them all. It's to the point where I'm really on the fence about the new Saltmarsh modules simply because of the inclusion of Dyson Logos cartography.

..............

Ok, ok. I give. I surrender. I was using "Performance" to mean delivery and presentation. Because, well, frankly, what is performance if it's not delivery and presentation? But, sure. Pick a bloody term that you like. We started with "literary", which no one understood what it meant, I proposed Performance, but, apparently, that's not right. So, fine. You folks pick a term, give me the definition and we'll discuss that.

Because all this back and forth semantic is a complete and utter waste of time. I explained the terms as I understood them. Can we at least pick words that you folks like and get back to the actual point instead of farting around with this?

Sheesh.

The issue isn't with the terms. It's with the application of those terms. There are portions of the game that are literary, and there are portions of the game that are performance. People are running afoul of things in trying to apply those terms too broadly. Performance is a type of delivery and presentation, but not all delivery and presentation is performance. Literary is written recording, but not all, or even most of an RPG is written. I don't think there is a term that is going to broadly apply here.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Satyrn]

Just pointing out that if we had been using this definition from the beginning (literary as pertaining to or of the nature of books and writings, especially those classed as literature .... which is kind of tautological, but still), then I don't think there would have been any debate.

The written portions of RPGs can be literature, and the played portions cannot be, by definition.

Seems kind of pointless, but you'll have to ask the OP about that.*


(And yes, the issue would be with the terms used.)

I'm assuming that the OP is using "literary" with its snobbish connotations. You know what I mean. "This thing I like is literary, therefore it is better than that other similar thing that you like, and I can provide reams of literature that purport to back my claim, but really it's all just opinion."

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*