Is Simulacrum subject to abuse?

[Shallown]

Simulacrum
Illusion (Shadow)
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, M, XP
Casting Time: 12 hours
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: One duplicate creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Simulacrum creates an illusory duplicate of any creature. The duplicate creature is partially real and formed from ice or snow. It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only one-half of the real creature’s levels or Hit Dice (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD). You can’t create a simulacrum of a creature whose Hit Dice or levels exceed twice your caster level. You must make a Disguise check when you cast the spell to determine how good the likeness is. A creature familiar with the original might detect the ruse with a successful Spot check (opposed by the caster’s Disguise check) or a DC 20 Sense Motive check.

At all times the simulacrum remains under your absolute command. No special telepathic link exists, so command must be exercised in some other manner. A simulacrum has no ability to become more powerful. It cannot increase its level or abilities. If reduced to 0 hit points or otherwise destroyed, it reverts to snow and melts instantly into nothingness. A complex process requiring at least 24 hours, 100 gp per hit point, and a fully equipped magical laboratory can repair damage to a simulacrum.

Material Component: The spell is cast over the rough snow or ice form, and some piece of the creature to be duplicated (hair, nail, or the like) must be placed inside the snow or ice. Additionally, the spell requires powdered ruby worth 100 gp per HD of the simulacrum to be created.

XP Cost: 100 XP per HD of the simulacrum to be created (minimum 1,000 XP).



I was thinking I can Dup anything. How about an Astral Deva with 24 hit dice. Say I cast at 13th level when I first get Simulacrum. All I need is a feather fingernail or tiny bit. I don't have to hunt or fight a big deva just get a scrap of one. I just chose The deva beacuase it has some nice spell likes at will and outsiders are one of the most powerful monsters for the hit dice. Their may be more abusive things to do.

What would be the drawbacks?




For 1200 gp and 1200 exp I get.


ANGEL, ASTRAL DEVA
Medium Outsider (Angel, Extraplanar, Good)
Hit Dice: 12d8+48 (102 hp)
Initiative: +8
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares), fly 100 ft. (good)
Armor Class: 29 (+4 Dex, +15 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 25
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+18
Attack: heavy mace +18 melee (1d8+9 plus stun) or slam +18 melee (1d8+9)
Full Attack: +3 heavy mace +18/+13/+8 melee (1d8+12 plus stun) or slam +18 melee (1d8+9)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities, stun
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 10/evil, darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, immunity to acid, cold, and petrification, protective aura, resistance to electricity 10 and fire 10, spell resistance 30, tongues, uncanny dodge
Saves: Fort +14 (+18 against poison), Ref +12, Will +12
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 18, Wis 18, Cha 20
Skills: Concentration +19, Craft or Knowledge (any three) +19, Diplomacy +22, Escape Artist +19, Hide +19, Intimidate +20, Listen +23, Move Silently +19, Sense Motive +19, Spot +23, Use Rope +4 (+6 with bindings)
Feats: Alertness, Cleave, Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Power Attack

Combat
An astral deva is not afraid to enter melee combat. It takes a fierce joy in bashing evil foes with its powerful heavy mace.

An astral deva’s natural weapons, as well as any weapons it wields, are treated as good-aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Spell-Like Abilities: At will—aid, continual flame, detect evil, discern lies (DC 19), dispel evil (DC 20), dispel magic, holy aura (DC 23), holy smite (DC 19), holy word (DC 22), invisibility (self only), plane shift (DC 22), polymorph (self only), remove curse (DC 18), remove disease (DC 18), remove fear (DC 16); 7/day—cure light wounds (DC 16), see invisibility; 1/day—blade barrier (DC 21), heal (DC 21). Caster level 12th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.

Stun (Su): If an astral deva strikes an opponent twice in one round with its mace, that creature must succeed on a DC 22 Fortitude save or be stunned for 1d6 rounds. The save DC is Strength-based.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): An astral deva retains its Dexterity bonus to AC when flat-footed, and it cannot be flanked except by a rogue of at least 16th level. It can flank characters with the uncanny dodge ability as if it were a 12th-level rogue.


Thanks
Later

 

[kigmatzomat]

Well, I doubt you'd get magical gear so nix the mace of disruption.

Simulacrum is rife with possibility for abuse under a lax GM.

A canny GM will keep things well in hand (the GM's hand that is, not the PCs) The construct will use normal deva-like decision process whenever executing orders. There's a good chance it will go off on tangents that you didn't expect (healing the sick, slaughtering evil, judging wrongs, etc). Same goes for just about anything else; fiends will torture/maim/tempt at every opportunity, dragons take whatever treasure is handy, etc etc.

Plus there will be the possibilities of repurcussions. Outsiders may take umbrage at simulacrums of their kind and of course any rampages your creation goes on may be traced back to you. Nothing like having a group of young heroes consider you a BBEG because your pet construct took out a slum while picking up a loaf of bread!

 

[Shallown]

Sorry should have edited the mace out I did on the one my character plans to build.

But for every shrewd Dm is a shrewd player.

I plan to fail my disguise check and make sure it looks nothing like the original. That does not seem to affect the spell at all.

I assume absoulte control means just that so I don't have to worry about it acting too out of line. Plus I plan to have a Deva of the same alignment as myself so It will have less conflicts.

My Gm is not Lax but he is trying to follow the rule books and not changing things willy nilly. I just wondered if the abuse potential I saw was as high as I saw it to be.

later

 

[Rackhir]

I'm not sure that you are going to get the spell and spell like abilities at the level you have in the posting or even the number of them. As the spell description states that it will have them for a creature of half the level/HD and it doesn't say in the creature description that the spell like abilities scale depending on the creature's HD. The 14 HD planetar specifies a caster level of 17 for example. So I suspect you would have your spell like abilities at those of a 6th lvl caster, half that of the specified 12th level caster in the base monster description.

 

[Krelios]

Not really that abusable. At the cost of at least 1000 xp and a at least 1000 gp you get a cohort of your level that has to pay per point of hp to be repaired. Sounds like a great way to drain party resources to me. If that creature is so powerful that its more of a threat than a party member, foes will concentrate on it and either destroy it (forcing you to pay more xp for a new one) or make it prohibitively expensive to repair.

As a player, I'd never take one into combat. They're much more useful as spies and decoys.

 

[Deset Gled]

The tactic may seem cheap to do once, the cost of doing it many times will add up quickly, and keeping one maintained (healed) is not cheap or easy. Also, the 12 hour casting time and required terrain means it will have to be prepared well ahead of time. It's not like you'll just be creating a Simulacrum right before you face the BBEG at the end of a dungeon.

 

[Krelios]

I'm not sure that you are going to get the spell and spell like abilities at the level you have in the posting or even the number of them. As the spell description states that it will have them for a creature of half the level/HD and it doesn't say in the creature description that the spell like abilities scale depending on the creature's HD. The 14 HD planetar specifies a caster level of 17 for example. So I suspect you would have your spell like abilities at those of a 6th lvl caster, half that of the specified 12th level caster in the base monster description.

Also a good point. The Astral Deva I think has a level progression in the Planar Handbook. I'd use that to figure out what abilities she'd have at that level.

 

[Shallown]

Well the plan was to get a 24 hit dice deva then half it to 12 HD which I used becuase I could copy paste out of the SRD easily. They can advance up to 36 hit die.

Rackhir
If you halve the hit dice the 12th caster remains constant since it is not linked to hit dice. But to be honest I think there is a text somewhere that states that the hit dice and caster levels are equal unless it says they are not. I'll have to hunt that up.

As for repairing it it can be repaired or healed normally. They text in the spell says it can be repaired that way not "can only" It doesn't change anything about the creature duplicated. Since I can duplicate creatures with fast healing as well to get around that.

Later

 

[Infiniti2000]

Well the plan was to get a 24 hit dice deva then half it to 12 HD which I used becuase I could copy paste out of the SRD easily. They can advance up to 36 hit die.

The DM first needs to let you find a 24HD deva. You can't assume that you can find any advanced or templated creature you want.

If you halve the hit dice the 12th caster remains constant since it is not linked to hit dice. But to be honest I think there is a text somewhere that states that the hit dice and caster levels are equal unless it says they are not. I'll have to hunt that up.

The caster level is equal to the HD unless the monster text says otherwise. Since the deva specifically identifies it as 12th caster level, then the caster level technically never increases for advanced devas. Thus, your simulacrum CL is 6.

As for repairing it it can be repaired or healed normally. They text in the spell says it can be repaired that way not "can only" It doesn't change anything about the creature duplicated. Since I can duplicate creatures with fast healing as well to get around that.

Where did you get the idea it can be repaired or healed normally? The text provides, specifically, the only method of repairing and it's quite expensive. Are you suggesting that that line in there is completely meaningless? Who in the world would ever take 12 hours and 100gp/hp to repair the damage when you could have the cleric casts heal or whatever instead? That's ludicrous. The fast healing/regenerating issue is a good point, however.

 

[TheGogmagog]

Darn you, I just told my DM last night I didn't know of any Simulacrum abuse threads.

Here are the balance factors.
1) The material component is a piece of whatever you want to create. The odds of encountering something twice your level AND getting a piece of it should be slim. However, there are spells with material components of things like displacer hide or a dragon scale, so there would be ways around this, with a lax DM.

2) With most targets you will have acess to or be able to conquer they will be within 5 of your level, meaning a resulting creature of about 1/2 to 3/4 of your level. This should be within lines of summon monster, and less than Gate. The duration is permanant, but the creature won't advance.

3) You need a target with level, or that has been advanced to double its base. What abilities does a 12 HD solar have? Break out the OPTIONAL rules for advancing monsters from 1 HD, from suppliments they don't have. Odds are a headache for DM means unhappy player.

4) The Illusion is not practically repaired. So it's most likely going to be around until it takes x amount of damage. With the up front exp and gp cost, that tends to tone down the abuse factor. Once again there is a concievable way around this, a creature with fast healing, regeneration or that heals when exposed to X element. I'm prety sure those wouldnt work. If the creature doesnt heal naturally, it will notheal faster.

5) Any issues with unlimited spell ablilities will have the same problem from the summoning/calling spells. I have a house rule solution on spells and Item creation that require exp. When this exp cost is cheated, it results in a 'mishap' or cursed item. So if you force a controlled creature to cast a spell with and exp component, even if the effect doesn't cost them exp due to spell like ability, it's subject to an unpleasant ending.