Is Simulacrum subject to abuse?

[Shallown]

I-2000
I'm not assuming I can find one but was using it as maybe an extreme example of the potential abuse of the Spell. I have encountered plenty of 20+ hit dice creatures that may make good Simulacrums.

6th level caster would not be bad considering some of the spell abilities it has. As far as I can tell only level or hit dice are reduced the abilities of a 2 hd Deva and a 12 hd deva are as a 12th caster since it is specified and not based on hit dice as you said. The spell does not mention that it halves caster level when it is not linked to hit dice. It has abilties equal to its new adjusted hit dice which is 12 as far as I can tell.

But I would be okay with either to be honest.

Copied From the spell Emphasis mine.
A complex process requiring at least 24 hours, 100 gp per hit point, and a fully equipped magical laboratory can repair damage to a simulacrum.

I think can only means can. Not must. Why would you use this instead of normal healing maybe normal healing is not available. Not sure myself.


I'm not planning on abusing the heck out of this myself I was just wondering why with all the other abusable combos and spells this one was overlooked. As written it could be rather sick.

If I was planning to abuse it I wouldn't post it where my GM could see it and stop me before I start since I haven't survived to 13th level yet or gotten the spell.


Even if the GM decreed it was only repaired that way and other restrictions it would still be cheaper to make in GP and Experience than some magic items. for example. It could sit in a room all day making everburning torches, plane shifting people for a price, curing disease and removing curses.

Just seems a little too strong.

Later

 

[TheGogmagog]

Copied From the spell Emphasis mine.
A complex process requiring at least 24 hours, 100 gp per hit point, and a fully equipped magical laboratory can repair damage to a simulacrum.

I think can only means can. Not must. Why would you use this instead of normal healing maybe normal healing is not available. Not sure myself.

You are right, the Simulacrum would heal normally, if Illusions heal themselves over time. They would also not be valid targets for curing or healing, since they arn't a creature, they are an "illusory duplicate", which is made substantial with [Shadow] and snow or ice.

 

[green slime]

And what do the powers of good think about creating a copy of a Deva?

And I concur that the simulacrum can only be healed by the method described in the spell description.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I assume absoulte control means just that so I don't have to worry about it acting too out of line. Plus I plan to have a Deva of the same alignment as myself so It will have less conflicts.

Absolute control means it will obey you exactly. Anything that you didn't directly address, however, the simulacrum will default to the nature of the original. This puts it into the realm of 1e wishes with lots of additional commands ("only stop crimes that impede this task I am giving you, no healing the sick, no proclamations, disable your aura of good, refrain from spell casting," etc etc) to reign them in.

I also concur that this would not heal naturally simply b/c it is not a living creature but a spell effect. At most it is a construct and by the SRD constructs do not heal naturally.

 

[Shallown]

TheGog
nothing changes the type of creature to [shadow} or {illusion} they stay the same type a living creature.

GS
My character wouldn't care what Good has to say about it. As long as it is being used for good why would it care. I could have used a lot of other examples like an iron golumn and get a nice 9 HD golumn immune to all sorts of stuff and with abilities not diminished by the hit die reduction other than less hit points. And I have repair spells already since we have a warforged in the party.


Kigma
As a highly intelligent wizard I think they could have a set of instructions that would cover most situations especially since it is not a mindless autonamaton but a thinking creature. It could use its own judgement to understand and operate within the rules given it. I know any GM could screw a player over but they can do that in any case not just in this one. Nothing in the RAW provides for the creature to be any more vengeful than it normally would be.


I agree the spell is a little off. I was wondering according to the RAW was there something about it I was missing. I have never seen it brought up before and sort of wondered that I was the first.

Later

 

[lukelightning]

Heh, I thought this thread was going to be something like "My wizard made a simulacrum and likes to hit it and call it names.... will I get in trouble for abusing it?"

 

[green slime]

GS
My character wouldn't care what Good has to say about it. As long as it is being used for good why would it care. I could have used a lot of other examples like an iron golumn and get a nice 9 HD golumn immune to all sorts of stuff and with abilities not diminished by the hit die reduction other than less hit points. And I have repair spells already since we have a warforged in the party.

I wasn't concerned about your character's attitude towards creating the simulacra of Devas, but the idea that perhaps, those icons of Goodness, the Deva themselves, might not like the idea of a mortal creating a copy (albiet limited) of one of their own. Even if it was for good purposes.

The repair spells only work on constructs. Nowhere in the spell description of simulacrum does it mention that it is a construct. It speaks of "duplicate creature", or "illusory duplicate of any creature". In order for the repair X damage spells to work, making a copy of a golem (or other construct creature) would (IMO) work. Other duplicate creatures would have to put up with the expensive alternative listed in the spell description.

You could have used alot of different examples, but you didn't, which was why I was discussing the example you did make.

 

[Shallown]

GS

It takes a duplicate it doesn't say that it changes its type so If I make a Golumn (which is a constuct) then I can heal it with repair spells. No where does it say what the creatures type is or becomes. if I made a duplicate of the caster (Which I think is the main focus for the spell in the past) then would they not be humaniod anymore. (if hey were to begin with) and if not does the spell actually say that. Ie what is descriptive and what is actual changes to the new duplicate?

Sorry I didn't use more examples but I didn't think people would read more than one.

I'm sure some one would be upset that I made a deva but I could make other hings. Mayhaps that was not the best example.


Later

 

[LokiDR]

As written, the spell is open to abuse, just as you say. It is really up to the DM to keep these abuses down, as mentioned. If it was abused in a game I ran, I would talk to the player and possibly houserule it down.

 

[TheGogmagog]

TheGog
nothing changes the type of creature to [shadow} or {illusion} they stay the same type a living creature.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/simulacrum.htm
Simulacrum
Illusion (Shadow)
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, M, XP
Casting Time: 12 hours
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: One duplicate creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

Simulacrum creates an illusory duplicate of any creature. The duplicate creature is partially real and formed from ice or snow.

You are right it doesn't say anything about changing the creature type. Too bad it doesn't create a duplicate creature. It creates an Illusion. It's not a creature type becaus it's not a creature. (Shadow) isn't a creature type (sorry about using brackets previously) it's a spell type. The (Shadow) designation explains why the Illusion still has effect even if it is recognised as such.