Is sunder _this_ easy?

[Vahktang]

Well, my heroes are the giant killing, teleporting crew.
If they fight, the giants die.
If they run, the giants die tired.
So, the giants decided to hit the party where they hurt: their stuff.
Destroy enough of it and they party may go away to get more stuff and maybe get distracted and not come back.

So I was looking up the sunder rules and for things carried its:

10 + AC of item (based on size) + DEX bonus of character carrying it.

Not deflection, dodge or luck, just DEX.

So even a really good rogue's quiver of Elhona or Bag of holding are like AC 18. Though the character itself's AC is in the high 20's+
The giants have like a +20 to hit, and improved Sunder, +15 +3D6 damage.
So, a full attack later and the Rod of empowerment on the mage is gone as well as the bag of holding on the rogue.
Is that how easy it is?
Talk about making a little magic campaign.
And what does happen when you break a quiver of Elhona, bag of holding, Heward's haversack, etc.

Thanks for any help.
You good people have done me well before.

More later,

Vahktang

 

[Thanee]

Yes, Sunder is way too easy.

Everything, that figures into the targets touch AC should be in there, plus the item's size, at the very least.

If an extradimensional space item gets destroyed, I think that is actually detailed in the DMG somewhere, IIRC ... EDIT: Ah, right... bag of holding actually says it. Everything inside is lost then.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Planesdragon]

So even a really good rogue's quiver of Elhona or Bag of holding are like AC 18. Though the character itself's AC is in the high 20's+
The giants have like a +20 to hit, and improved Sunder, +15 +3D6 damage.
So, a full attack later and the Rod of empowerment on the mage is gone as well as the bag of holding on the rogue.

Yep, that's how it goes.

But this is an especially weak area of the game. It's hard to smash the sword someone's using against me, easy to smash the pouch they have on their belt, and impossible to damage the armor that they're wearing.

IMC I have hits that touch but don't bypass armor damage armor, and should someone try to hit an item on someone, they'd have to make a touch attack + the size catagory of the item. (This makes defense a bit weaker, so I balance it with class-based defense bonuses for everyone and everything.)

And what does happen when you break a quiver of Elhona, bag of holding, Heward's haversack, etc.

Nothing. The items inside are "gone forever."

If you put a bag of holding inside a portable hole, or vice versa, they cause a problem as a special quality of the two magical items.

 

[italianranma]

The only problem I'd see in it is that the giants might not be that intelligent. Hill are only 6, most of the rest are 10 or 12. How do the giants know that the bags and quivers they're striking at are magical at all? Even if they're going on past experiance they'd have no way to tell which items are magical other than a detect magic spell, or by observing their effects. If you're going to have them slashing at stuff, give them a chance of hitting non-magical stuff too. My rogue for example carries a bag of holding on his person, but also a belt pouch, backpack, bedroll, quiver, and a bunch of sheaths. Which is the magical item? Or maybe it's under my armor, so the other theives can't steal it . I save devious tactics for devious enemies. Finally even if you have humaniod intelligent enemies capable of destroying the PCs items, don't you think that they'd want that stuff too? If they're really devious they might try to steal it without killing the PCs (see the disarm skill) and then run, thus depriving the PCs of their items and potential exp.

 

[Thanee]

How do the giants know that the bags and quivers they're striking at are magical at all?

They're metagaming.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Even intelligent giants are not going to figure out what to destroy without metagaming. Our heroes carry a lot of non-magical gear. Probably 2 to 4 times as many nonmagical potential targets as magical ones.

Even though giants are very dangerous, the typical member of the species is going to have no more experience and knowledge guessing what is and is not magical than a 2nd level Warrior.

Archers should consider using a backup bow instead. That is a juicy target even to a dumb giant.

 

[dcollins]

The only problem I'd see in it is that the giants might not be that intelligent. Hill are only 6, most of the rest are 10 or 12. How do the giants know that the bags and quivers they're striking at are magical at all? Even if they're going on past experiance they'd have no way to tell which items are magical other than a detect magic spell, or by observing their effects. If you're going to have them slashing at stuff, give them a chance of hitting non-magical stuff too.

Perhaps, but they are clearly specialized and taught to do exactly that, since they have taken the "Improved Sunder" feat.

I would agree with your last suggestion -- what I would do is set up a near-standard attack pattern for what they go after. Somewhat similar to the "Items Affected by Magical Attacks" table, but prioritized to whatever the enemy is holding -- if they're actively using it, it gets Sundered.

Thus, (1) weapon or item in hand, (2) shield, (3) helmet, (4) cloak, (5) stowed weapons, etc...

 

[Saeviomagy]

Well, my heroes are the giant killing, teleporting crew.
If they fight, the giants die.
If they run, the giants die tired.
So, the giants decided to hit the party where they hurt: their stuff.
Destroy enough of it and they party may go away to get more stuff and maybe get distracted and not come back.

Or stab them and have the same happen.

Or better still, grapple them and not have them teleport away at all.

Or, finally, if this really is last ditch, surrender.

Smashing people's stuff isn't really a good strategy unless you know you'll survive to fight another day.

 

[Piratecat]

Not when you're smashing their weapons.

This is a good tactic. If you want to err on the side of kindness, allow every bonus that goes into a touch AC; the giants are still going to hit even when power attacking, but the PCs will feel slightly less hosed about it.

This is the sort of tactic that a smarter leader tells his troops about, and which they'll try in desperation.

 

[Len]

The reason players feel hosed about these tactics is that no matter which side uses them, they work against the players. If the giants destroy our magic weapons and items, we lose our best stuff. If we destroy their magic items, we lose our best stuff.