D&D 5E Is Tasha's More or Less The Universal Standard?

[Parmandur]

Okay. Then we are in agreement. Dex is a better stat than int, but swapping them doesn't cause things to fall outside of their expected balance range.

Might depend on your definition of"better," because the definitions I've seen here are fairly subjective and situstional.

 

[Maxperson]

Might depend on your definition of"better," because the definitions I've seen here are fairly subjective and situstional.

Dex is universally very useful. Int is situationally useful, primarily for int classes.

 

[Maxperson]

Equal =/= the same.

No, but balanced = equal. If you balance a ruler on your finger, both sides have to be even. Stats are not balanced. Some are better than others, so they are not equal.

Though to be fair, because D&D is a cooperative game, the level of balance, per Crawford again, is the narrative.

Which is a convenient way to dodge class imbalance

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I wasn't arguing, I was stating. Thank you for providing the basic facts, though.

The Attributes are balsnce neutral. This isn't the first time they've said this, but if anyone is interested they can find it themselves.

Yeah it’s hard to imagine watching that video and thinking that the attributes affect the balance of the game in the eyes of the designers. He outright says that the mountain dwarf is balanced around having 2 +2s, not around where those +2s are assigned.

My crew follows them religiously. Brennen Lee Mulligan is my Platonic Ideal of a DM (and a comedian for that matter): his personal outlook and preferences seem to lean closer to mine than many, but he is able to have a lot fun running for people who clearly game in a looser way.

I’m in the same boat, having mostly players who are less crunchy than I am. And yeah, he’s an incredible DM. I mean I may have a bit of a celebrity crush, but like come on have you heard his “dangerous bad guy” voice!? It’s like Michael Keaton playing a gunslinger!

I prefer array/buy because I have never seen a player feel short changed by using it while I have many times when they can't catch a break rolling.

My group is too in love with rolling to use PB, and too into customization to use array. I am considering pushing for 6+2d6 going forward, though. Now we use 4d6, reroll 1s, drop lowest, and then if anyone is meaningfully below everyone else they can roll a new set or let the DM roll them a set.

 

[Parmandur]

No, but balanced = equal. If you balance a ruler on your finger, both sides have to be even. Stats are not balanced. Some are better than others, so they are not equal.

Which is a convenient way to dodge class imbalance

Difference is not neccesarily imbalance in a complex system.

 

[Maxperson]

Difference is not neccesarily imbalance in a complex system.

I didn't say difference was the reason for the imbalance. I said the abilities are not balanced and that's factual. Dexterity is universally useful and int, str and cha are only situationally useful, and those situations don't exceed similar situations for dex. And for some of the situations that do overlap, dex is stronger than the others. That makes them objectively less powerful than dex.

 

[Parmandur]

I didn't say difference was the reason. I said the abilities are not balanced and that's factual. Dexterity is universally useful and int, str and cha are only situationally useful, and those situations don't exceed similar situations for dex. And for some of the situations that do overlap, dex is stronger than the others. That makes them objectively less powerful than dex.

Quantity is not quality.

 

[Maxperson]

Quantity is not quality.

No, quality is quality. So let's examine what int and dex give.

Int gives a save bonus to a very, very, very, VERY few things. It's one of the weakest save stats.
Dex gives a save bonus to a very, very, very, VERY many things. It's one of the strongest save stats.
The quality win goes to Dex.

Int gives a skill bonus to 5 skills that are useful.
Dex gives a skill bonus to 3 skills, including one of the top 3 most used skills in the game.
The quality win is a wash or maybe a slight edge to int.

Int gives bonuses to int based classes.
Dex gives bonuses to dex based classes.
This is a quality wash.

Dex gives an initiative bonus.
Int doesn't.
Dex wins quality by default.

Dex gives an AC bonus.
Int doesn't.
Dex wins quality by default.

Dex can be used in place of strength for some weapons.
Int cannot.
Dex wins quality by default.

Dex is useful to all classes.
Int is not.
Dex wins quality.

Dex wins 5 times by a large margin, and washes once or maybe twice. Int maybe wins once.

 

[SakanaSensei]

I have already heard from people who've played a few months of level up that they immediately saw a reduction in improvisational play, or what some folks call "shennanigans", because people are more inclined to stick to what's on their sheet, the more little mechanical knobs and dials and widgets they have on their sheet.

I love the way A5E handles race, background and culture. I like a lot of the magic items. The monster book has been the core of my combat experience in my current campaign and the journey rules are pretty fantastic.

I have 100% without a doubt seen the exact same thing regarding players just sticking to their sheet with A5E abilities. It's probably why I'll be mining from A5E in the future instead of playing it straight.

A5E is a game I like to think about. O5E (with lots of homebrew, much of which can come from A5E, Mage Hand Press, MCDM, and other sources) is a game I like to play.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Yeah it’s hard to imagine watching that video and thinking that the attributes affect the balance of the game in the eyes of the designers. He outright says that the mountain dwarf is balanced around having 2 +2s, not around where those +2s are assigned.


I’m in the same boat, having mostly players who are less crunchy than I am. And yeah, he’s an incredible DM. I mean I may have a bit of a celebrity crush, but like come on have you heard his “dangerous bad guy” voice!? It’s like Michael Keaton playing a gunslinger!

My group is too in love with rolling to use PB, and too into customization to use array. I am considering pushing for 6+2d6 going forward, though. Now we use 4d6, reroll 1s, drop lowest, and then if anyone is meaningfully below everyone else they can roll a new set or let the DM roll them a set.

So...speaking of balance...

That last bit, where the losers of the die rolling contest get a Mulligan and can try again, I am strongly opposed to.

If everyone is using the same method it's fine, but when you mix methods in a group it's like giving a middle finger to those that used the array/buy because you all but guarantee better scores across the board.

Same goes for rolling HP. I always just take the 5 for a d8. Then the player next to me decides to gamble and rolls a 1, the GM lets them try again because a 1 is garbage, then they get a 7. That's bad feels.