Is the 15 minute adventuring day now the 90 minute adventuring day?

Brown Jenkin

First Post
There has been talk about how 4E gets rid of the 15 minute adventuring day. While I grant it will likely be somewhat longer from what I can see so far it strikes me as being still very similar. With 4E there are two daily resources that can be expended. There are Powers and there are Healing Surges.

With the power if the dailies are used they won’t weaken the character quite as much as if a 3.x spellcaster goes nova and uses up their powerful spells for the day and the party might press on. Once several party members in 4E have used dailies though I can see more cautious parties still stopping for the 6 hour rest before going on if they are not sure what they might run into.

With Healing Surges though I can’t see parties pushing on if they run out. With the pre-gens we see the number of Surges running from 6-13 depending on the characters. In order for a battle to be at least somewhat challenging I would think that each character would likely have to use at least one if not two or three Surges to either get though the battle or heal up completely after the battle. If characters don’t take at least some damage it probably wasn’t that challenging (in 3.x characters could go all day if the challenges never did much damage either). Given the number of Surges it would seem to me like after 3-4 battles most characters would be out of Healing Surges and need to take the 6 hour rest to recharge Surges.

So it would seem to me like most adventuring days would go:
8:00am - 8:30am adventure
8:30am - 2:30pm rest
2:30pm - 3:00pm adventure
3:00pm - 9:00pm rest
9:00pm - 9:30pm adventure
9:30pm - 8am rest

While this does give more adventures per 24 periods it still creates similar problems to before where the characters face a few things then retreat and camp for awhile and then go back in.

So am I looking at this wrong? I am writing this thread not to complain but in hopes that someone can point out to me what I am missing here.
 

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Bayonet_Chris

First Post
From the 5-page handout

Another thread posted the 5-page handout that went over the basic rules, etc.

In it is this, with my highlights:

Extended Rest. Once per day, you can take an extended rest. It must last at least 6 hours to gain the benefits. You have to rest or sleep during this period. At the end of the rest, you regain any hit points you lost and healing surges you spent, your daily powers are renewed, and you lose any unspent action points and gain 1 fresh action point.

I would imagine it introduces the 18-hour adventuring day. At least, that's how I read it.
 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
Well, first of all, you only gain the benefits of an extended rest ONCE per day.

So the "dailies" are, in fact, Daily.

But you're right, the adventuring day is only extended by so much.

(Which is fine, if you ask me, otherwise you'd have the opposite problem of "Level 2 by Lunch!"

Fitz
 

Sammael

Adventurer
I've never, EVER seen the so-called 15-minute adventuring day in actual play, and I've gamed with some fairly diverse groups.
 

Brown Jenkin

First Post
Bayonet_Chris said:
Another thread posted the 5-page handout that went over the basic rules, etc.

In it is this, with my highlights:

Extended Rest. Once per day, you can take an extended rest. It must last at least 6 hours to gain the benefits. You have to rest or sleep during this period. At the end of the rest, you regain any hit points you lost and healing surges you spent, your daily powers are renewed, and you lose any unspent action points and gain 1 fresh action point.

I would imagine it introduces the 18-hour adventuring day. At least, that's how I read it.

Oops I missed that. That means that the adventuring day is now 30 minutes instead of three 30 minute blocks spread across the day like I thought. So there seems to be even less of a difference than I thought.

edit: included subquote
 
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keterys

First Post
Yep, with only being able to rest once a day and not gaining a ton, you can try to hide from the world but it won't stop your enemies from doing stuff while you gain literally no benefit... so not much help.

The sad thing is that some DMs will do far more difficult combats to encourage people to burn more surges and dailies, which will in turn convince people to sleep more, etc. Though, it's difficult to burn more than a couple surges per combat, max.
 


Brown Jenkin

First Post
keterys said:
Though, it's difficult to burn more than a couple surges per combat, max.

Yes, it might be only 1-2 in combat but characters are allowed to use as many as needed during the short 5 minute rest period to fully recover their health. That is why I figure 2-3 per combat.
 

Victim

First Post
A 90 minute adventuring day covers an action movie pretty well. A 15 minute adventuring day requires 'padding' to fill out a half hour (but really 22 min) show.
 

Propheous_D

First Post
I think that this may be a bit of a stretch. If anything I will say that the milage each party gets will greatly vary each day based on the make up and tactics they use. I can easily seeing a defender heavy party lasting alot longer then a striker heavy party. Since leaders are not as important as their clerical counterparts in that it would seem that they use charges of the healing surges the character they are healing has you may only need one of them and some back up healing method.

I have another point about encounters I Am going to start a new thread for that just came in my head.
 

Bayonet_Chris

First Post
Setting expectations

There is no rule one way or another about how any DM allows his players to act. Players can be twinks and rules lawyers only by the DM's consent. If the players act in a way that you, as the DM, think is abusing the spirit of the rules or just plain lame, it's up to you to correct the situation.

If you're OK with a 15, 60, or 90 minute adventuring day followed by 20+ hours of laying around being unproductive, then go with it. I am not, so my players won't get away with something like that without some sort of reprecussion.
 

broghammerj

Explorer
I still think people will camp once their daily powers are gone. The only difference is now the whole group will be demanding it, not just the wizard. Yeah you could go on but why when you can rest and be at full power. (Mind you I too never saw the 15 min adventuring day)

My other question is why healing surges? Basically all they do is expand the HP pool which can be accomplished in a number of ways.....wand of CLW, cleric spells, raising overall permanant HPs. I would much rather have more HP per person and have some sort of critical mechanic that brings you immediately to bloodied and if you're bloodied take you down to 10HP (or something). Still keeps the threat of death. Now with healing surges I dont think it will happen unless you're a 1st level character fighting a 4th level dragon.
 

kenmarable

Adventurer
kennew142 said:
I've seen it many times.
Wow, I'm sorry. I have to go with Sammael and Bayonet Chris, I've never seen it, and if anyone tried it, neither me nor any DMs I've ever had would have tolerated it.

In my opinion, if players are really annoying in twinking the rules, there's only so much the mechanics can do to prevent that. Annoying players are annoying players, regardless of the rules. *shrug*
 

hexgrid

First Post
Brown Jenkin said:
Oops I missed that. That means that the adventuring day is now 30 minutes instead of three 30 minute blocks spread across the day like I thought.

How many minutes of each day should be taken up with life-or-death combat, anyway?

Sounds like adventurers need to unionize.
 

LowSpine

First Post
The little rests are only 5mins. It's just a little sit down before you continue. It is just to break up encounters (so the encounter powers reset) and get some recovery.
 

Andur

First Post
Well most actual combat I've ever seen a party do in one day was 5 minutes, that is 50, 6 second rounds.

However, DnD shouldn't be too much "hurry up and wait". But there is quite a bit of action "behind the scenes". Just getting to a combat takes some time. Your "downtime" gets "fleshed out" by botht he DM and the players, and people who don't like it will want to skip ahead, people who do will want to take in all the details, roleplay, skill check, or any number of other various ways to interact with each other and the campaign world. Neither is "right" nor "wrong".
 

kennew142

First Post
kenmarable said:
Wow, I'm sorry. I have to go with Sammael and Bayonet Chris, I've never seen it, and if anyone tried it, neither me nor any DMs I've ever had would have tolerated it.

In my opinion, if players are really annoying in twinking the rules, there's only so much the mechanics can do to prevent that. Annoying players are annoying players, regardless of the rules. *shrug*

I've seen it mainly in RPGA games and other convention games. We have one player who wants to use all of his big spells in the first encounter every day and then rest up. It annoys the heck out of me.
 

drothgery

First Post
Sammael said:
I've never, EVER seen the so-called 15-minute adventuring day in actual play, and I've gamed with some fairly diverse groups.

You've never done a scry-buff-teleport on a BBEG?

Or reached the point where Heal and/or Mass Heal are the only useful in-combat healing spells, so when the cleric's out of them, you're done for the day (or, why high-level parties pretty much won't do more than two or three level-approriate combat encounters per day if they can manage it, despite the base assumption of 4)?
 

Hypersmurf

Moderatarrrrh...
kennew142 said:
I've seen it mainly in RPGA games and other convention games. We have one player who wants to use all of his big spells in the first encounter every day and then rest up. It annoys the heck out of me.

We've seen it less with big attack spells, and more with healing.

Lowish level, no Magic Item Marts in the setting (and so no Wands of Cure Light Wounds or Vigor were available to us at the time). Our big combat yesterday, we ran out of healing before everyone was at max, so the first thing we do the next morning is burn through half the healing spells the druid and cleric have available. We press on, have a combat, and polish off the remaining healing to fix the results of that fight... and then we're left with the decision to make. Carry on further with no healing spells? Or find somewhere to hide until dawn?

So I've certainly seen the 5 minute day myself.

-Hyp.
 

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