Is the age of discounts over?

[Storminator]

He has zero data points, I have an admittedly flawed opt-in series of polls as a data point. That's not "exactly as relevant."

Your flawed opt-in series of polls is not data, it's noise. Therefore you have zero data points. Therefore exactly as relevant.

PS

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I find that assertion absurd. Unless you have hard numbers to back it up, it's no more than an unfounded assumption

Again, the most popular D20 gaming site on the Internet has had multiple (opt-in) polls where people have said that they don't and haven't gamed at stores and didn't get introduced to the hobby by stores.

and it conflicts with my own personal experience.

That's the way life works. Anecdotal experience doesn't really speak to much on its own.

In the last three places I've lived, I've had at least one FLGS nearby. Each had a very healthy gaming community, and it was not uncommon for new people to be introduced to the game via the store.

In the last three places I've lived -- I'm a journalist and move around -- there's been ONE LGS and the only gaming done in the store is MTG tournaments. And two of those places were major metropolitan areas where the LGS had closed down years ago, unless you wanted to drive 30 to 40 miles to find one of the few survivors.

I learned to play at camp. My brother learned to play from me. Our group in middle school all learned to play from friends and siblings. The 11 people who have played in my Midwood campaign at different times in the past 18 months all learned the same way.

Please prove the inconsequence of my experiences.

The IRS or Social Security Administration will handle the inconsequence stuff.

I just don't think your experience is indicative or particularly widespread, although it apparently is similar to Ryan Dancey's.

 

[Mercule]

FLGS, as a whole, do not help to grow the hobby in any significant manner. Sure, there is the occasional store on/near a college campus that serves as a Starbucks for geeks, but that's the exception.

Have I done any formal market research? Nope. I base my hypothesis on my 25+ years of participation in the hobby. Never once have I met someone who started to roleplay because they just happened to wander into a hobby store -- even when I went to a college with the previously mentioned on campus hobby store.

The people who go to the hobby stores are the people who are already interested in the hobby. I don't garden. I never wander into an garden store. Ever. I don't like sports. I don't wander into a sporting goods store. Ever. I would expect that someone who doesn't game would visit a FLGS exactly as often as I visit a garden or sporting goods store.

On the other hand, I have picked up a random plant or garden tool for my wife when I've been at Lowe's for something else. I have bought a new basketball when I happened to see the display at Target. IMO, WotC needs to be courting Barnes and Noble and Borders instead of the FLGS. My local B&N has a variety of events, from politicians speaking, to children's story time, to writing workshops, to comic book night, to *gasp* board game night. I'm betting that they'd be quite open to having an RPG night, if anyone cared to ask them. These guys understand that selling books is selling books, whether it's MS Press, Del Rey, or WotC and that hosting events helps them to sell books. They are also quite competitive with the discounters.

If Amazon.com or BN.com start selling at MSRP, it won't drive a dime of my business to the FLGS. Assuming that I still spend the same amount of gaming (which is a dubious assumption), I'll be doing it at the local B&N. Why? Because they have comfy chairs, chai lattes, nice music, other areas (computer) in which I get a lot of books, and they have a children's section that makes bringing my kids along a boon rather than a bane. Plus, they're friendlier than my FLGS, have cuter sales staff (joking, but true), and it smells a lot better.

As far as us not currently living in a capitalist system, that's true. On the other hand, if the problem is government intervention, very rarely is the solution more government intervention. Delving any deeper into that issue, though, would violate the "no-politics" rule.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Your flawed opt-in series of polls is not data, it's noise.

Someone should tell all the researchers, academics and analysts that they've been wasting their time for decades. :\

 

[Arnwyn]

Someone should tell all the researchers, academics and analysts that they've been wasting their time for decades. :\

Good heavens, what in the world are you talking about?

Proper research uses proper statistical methodologies "for decades".

 

[w_earle_wheeler]

I can buy most of the RPG books I want from Amazon.com at 25% to 34% off with free shipping. It's been this way for many years.

My local game stores offer a discount of 0%. My local chain bookstores offer small discounts of 10%, but one usually has to pay to be a member of their discount club. Add in the local sales tax of 7% and your discount shrinks to 3% at the places that even bother to give it to you.

I don't "expect" discounts because I want something special. I expect discounts on RPG books because I believe that they have been seriously overpriced.

That's why I buy most of my books from Amazon.com. I buy the rest at used book stores and conventions. Then I buy the strange and (somewhat) rare ones I want from my FLGS, such as the FUDGE hardback and HoL.

If WotC products were no longer offered at a discount online, then I'd just stop buying them. That's money I can spend on a few computer upgrades and some great computer games. In the meantime, my 1st edition, 2nd edition, and 3.5 edition books are still there and I can use them whenever I want from now until the end of time, assuming I have a group of people willing to play.

I like supplements and new editions, but they aren't necessary.

 

[Sigdel]

Put the product where people can get to it and provide an environment where they can read through the product before purchasing it, which will remain the advantage brick-and-mortar stores have over online, until everyone puts previews online, which I doubt will ever happen.

If you keep buying coffee, you can do whatever you want at their coffee shop, so long as you don't disturb the other customers.

And how is this a better place than the LGS? I could be running a game where the demon-prince Steve Perry is eating halflings and a customer overhears this, is offended because he/she is a Journey fan, and has me booted. And on top of all that I don't even like coffee.
All kidding aside, Big Box has no reason to let me do anything in their store. My hobby is an insignificant part of their sales, and for the most part, they dont care. the LGS on the other hand would be stupid to boot me and my Steve Perry-bashing butt.

 

[Glyfair]

Felix has it. That's why Mr. Delancey put "And the publishers already know that the full-service retail model is the best way to grow their businesses" in boldface. That's the whole crux of it, that all publishers are absolutely totally convinced of those assumptions already, and have been for years.

And you'll note that most game publishers encourage people interested in their products to buy from their FLGS rather than from them. They have the store their mostly to serve those who don't have a FLGS or who refuse to use them.

They believe (and, IMO, rightly so) that if a game store orders the product for a customer, they'll likely order two (I've seen this in action). That second copy on the shelf means more exposure for their product, and more interest in it.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

And how is this a better place than the LGS? I could be running a game where the demon-prince Steve Perry is eating halflings and a customer overhears this, is offended because he/she is a Journey fan, and has me booted. And on top of all that I don't even like coffee.

I wasn't offering it as a better-than-LGS option, I was simply saying that the big box bookstore does, in fact, offer a similar experience for those who do not have living rooms or basements to game in.

the LGS on the other hand would be stupid to boot me and my Steve Perry-bashing butt.

You're absolutely right, unless you game at Steve Perry's Bugbear Hut.

There's still a lot more gaming going on in private than in public, LARP aside. If every public venue for gaming -- libraries, school cafeteries, LGS, big box book stores, the public park, etc. -- all disappeared tomorrow, RPGs would still be played and most games wouldn't be affected.

 

[Glyfair]

All this means is that Amazon will come up with some discount or rebate program to get around the minimum sale price.

Only if its a large enough percentage of their business to make it worthwhile for them. The real issue is how much of their products are subject to publisher's minimum retail prices.

More than likely it's only the niche products that will have this happen often, and they aren't large enough parts of Amazon's market for them to worry about it.