Is the Barbarian overpowered?

[77IM]

I just DMed a year-long campaign that went from level 1 to level 20. We had two barbarians in the group, a Frenzied Berserker and a Bear Totem, and one Champion fighter who splashed 3 levels of barbarian and got Frenzied Berserker.

Yes, barbarians are overpowered. Their damage resistance is just ridiculous. It synergizes too well with high hit die, high Con, and Reckless Attack -- which in turn synergizes super well with GWM and any sort of crit-fishing build. The Champion fighter + Frenzied Berserker was the most egregious, because by 20th level they had 3 attacks + bonus action Frenzy attack + 2 action surges + Reckless Attack + GWM + crit range 18-20. So if that character decided to nova they could make 7 attacks with +6 to hit, 2d6+17 damage and a 68% chance of at least one crit -- rerolling 1's and 2's on damage dice. BUT the single-classed barbarian characters were also quite formidible -- one guy was resistant to everything except psychic damage and had a shield for a ridiculous AC and was basically unkillable, and the other guy was a clever player who made great use magic items to move about the battlefield and disrupt the enemy. I think all three of them had the Toughness feat. And it wasn't just at level 20, either; the whole way there, these barbarians were unstoppable. It was a problem because some of the other members of the group (wizard, sorcerer, blood hunter) were very squishy, and that kind of defensive discrepancy is hard to build encounters around. Like a hit that could one-shot the wizard would take away like 1/4 the barbarian's hit points. That's not very scary for the barbarian, and it sort of forces certain tactics, which sounds like a good thing except those tactics got very repetitive.

To be clear, it's mostly the resistance that I found problematic. The multiclass crit-fishing build is cute and all, but that's not the barbarian's fault, it's just a really good multiclassing combo. One of the things that makes it good is that the resistance effectively doubles ALL your hit points, regardless of how many barbarian levels you have.

If I were designing 6E, I'd ditch the resistance, and say that when a barbarian starts raging, they gain temporary hit points equal to twice their barbarian level. That's simple and it's similar to 3E's Con+4, and it's only based on barbarian levels, and it's not unduly affected by Con score or Toughness feat. Plus it gives barbarians a reason to occasionally re-rage in the middle of a fight. And if the barbarian already has some temporary hit points from another source (which is not actually very common, but it can happen, like if someone in the group has Inspiring Leader) it might give more incentive to NOT rage right at the start of a fight. I'm sure there are other fixes that could be applied; temp HP is just the best one I've thought of so far.

 

[Captain Panda]

I'd say barbarians are fine. They're effective at what they do, but what they do is fairly narrow. Dexterity barbarians are generally not a thing except for niche builds because you lose out on several key barbarian features, and traditional barbarians are mostly better.

In fact having a lower AC is part of the point. They soak damage very effectively, and more importantly they can actually draw attacks well. Reckless attack and a modest AC means that a DM is justified having a bunch of monsters attack the barbarian. In order to tank effectively you can't just be great at taking hits, you need things to actually take swings at you! An eldritch knight fighter who shields his AC up to 27+ or something ridiculous is just going to be ignored and the monster swarm is going to go after the wizard or bard instead, because the fighter is too hard to hit and doesn't hit hard enough to get the monster's attention. That's why you bring a barbarian.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

A couple of general notes on barbarians:

* The Path of the Ancestral Warrior (Xanthar) is useful for preventing enemies ignoring a high AC build;
* Path of the Zealot Divine Fury (Xanthar) extra damage works with a finesse weapon;
* Scourge Aasimar (Volo) have a racial that enables them to damage themselves - potentially useful for sustaining rage.

 

[S'mon]

I love the 5e Barbarian and it is great for players who want a simple durable and powerful class. I have never seen anyone try to build a DEX based finesse barbarian; outside of white room theorycrafting this looks like a terrible idea to me. The typical barbarian has DEX 14 so they can max AC with half plate, which gives the same AC as DEX 14 + CON 20. Typical unarmoured barbs do max CON eventually, but again rarely have DEX over 14 until very late on if ever.

My high level PC group (levels 16 to just-hit-20) has 3 barbarians (17, 18, and just-hit-20), a Rogue-16 and a Druid-18. They are definitely not overpowered compared to a more traditional group; in particular damage output is rather weak, except for the Rogue who is the lowest level of them - he can snipe with shortbow for a consistent meaty one sneak attack hit per round. The dragonborn barb-20 has powerful magic gauntlets and sword (two legendary attuned items, basically minor artifacts*) and can hit very hard per attack, but he still only has two attacks per round. He has AC 24 now I think - +2 half plate = 17, +2 DEX = 19, and a +3 shield = 24.

*The artifacts have great synergy - the dragon gauntlets give +4 STR and increase weapon damage die one step (they can also be used for a powerful rend attack, but then no shield), the sword is the Dragonblade (+2 weapon with 2d6 fire damage) and can be wielded one handed by STR 20 dragonborn for d12 damage - which becomes d20 with the gauntlets... so now he just hit level 20 he has STR 24 > 28 and does d20+9(STR)+4(Rage)+2(magic)+2d6(fire) on a hit - the brutal crits are rolling 5d20+15+4d6

Of course a Fighter-20 with girdle of storm giant strength gets STR 29 and with Action Surge can attack 8 times in a round for two rounds running, easily putting even that to shame. With enough DPR a lot of fights can be ended in a couple rounds, and at this kind of level it's not uncommon to be able to short rest between many or even most fights.

 

[CTurbo]

Barbarians are too limited outside of combat to be considered overpowered. They get almost nothing for the other two pillars of the game.

So yeah they're super awesome at hitting things with weapons and getting hit with weapons, but then they're sort of just there all the rest of the time.

 

[jgsugden]

I deal more damage with paladins and replace damage reduction with better AC and saves. My fighter builds can get all those ASIs and feats faster - and once they hit 11 and get that third attack (or 4th with haste at 13 for EKs), they blow the barbarian out of the way in damage - and have solid armor options as well..

Barbis are fine, but far from broken.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Barbarians are too limited outside of combat to be considered overpowered. They get almost nothing for the other two pillars of the game.

So yeah they're super awesome at hitting things with weapons and getting hit with weapons, but then they're sort of just there all the rest of the time.

Our beast totem barbarians use their animal based rituals regularly and effectively. Gathering information and sending messages to allies. No by no means the barbarian is inefficient in the explpration pillar. The outlander background also proves very useful as does a high strength and good movement speed.

Strength is a universally useful stat for the exploration pillar which puts dexterity to shame regularly. Whiteroom analysis and actual play diverge by quite a margin.

 

[cmad1977]

Barbarians have very few rages.

They won't be raging in most combats. The ones they do get to rage they're quite good.

Seems balanced to me.

Yes. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had a teammate say
‘You’re not RAGING??!?’

No friend. We got this... it’s ok.

I also hear
‘You took HOW much damage?’
‘30 something. I’m fine.’

 

[S'mon]

Our beast totem barbarians use their animal based rituals regularly and effectively. Gathering information and sending messages to allies. No by no means the barbarian is inefficient in the explpration pillar. The outlander background also proves very useful as does a high strength and good movement speed.

Strength is a universally useful stat for the exploration pillar which puts dexterity to shame regularly. Whiteroom analysis and actual play diverge by quite a margin.

At very high level Barbarians auto-pass DC 20 Athletics checks, assuming STR 20 (DC 24 at 20th!), which can definitely be useful for travel & exploration. Eg on Saturday 3 high level barbarians white-water canoeing down the river, I said "OK you pass umpteen athletics checks, and..."

 

[André Soares]

Another thing that I think is happening is that the OP is looking (or appears to look) at the Barbarian in a vacuum. Yes, he is very powerfull and takes a beating to go down at level 16... but did you see what a paladin can do at that level? The damage output can be absurd...