Is the Dervish overpowered?

[Drowbane]

So is the Dervish overpowered (more powered than a single class Fighter or Barbarian, for instance).

Any PrC is going to be more powerful than any base class you couldn't been instead... thats the nature of PrCs (or Kits for that matter ), instead compare the Dervish to other PrCs.

And yes, a well built Dervish is SCARY. Of course, this holds true for any PrC worth taking.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

if you have to blow a feat or two on junk feats, a prc better be stronger.

 

[Crothian]

I have a Dervish in my group and he's the weakest of the 5 PCs. However, he's also not trying to be a powerful character or anything like that, so it works out well.

 

[zoroaster100]

The reason this question came up for me is that a player in my campaign just decided to take levels in this prestige class. His character is an elf barbarian 2, fighter 4, monk 3, dervish 1. He wears no armor, yet his armor class is usually equal to or greater than the party's fighter in full plate and shield. He uses a +1 silver holy frost glaive (and he has combat reflexes to get the most out of his 10 foot reach), and when anyone gets within 5 feet, uses his monk improved strikes. Lately he has been the one to kill most of the dangerous opponents. Some of the other players have started to make noises that the dervish might be overpowered. I'm trying to figure out if it is a strong but balanced class, or an overpowered class that will end up overshadowing the other characters in the group.

 

[Crothian]

It looks like he's just taking a few level of classes to get the most bang for thebuck, min maxing his character to greatest effect. Of course without knowing the player and actually seeing his character this is just a guess, but it is something you might want to think on.

 

[Legildur]

Let me see, you allowed a character to multi-class as both a Barbarian and a monk, gave a 10th level character a +4 equivalent weapon with significant bonus damage dice, and wonder why he shines? More power to him!

I'd be more inclined to look at the wealth totals in the party. The weapon alone is worth in the vicinity of 33,000gp, and a 10th level character is meant to have a total wealth of around 49,000gp. So straight away, two-thirds of his wealth is invested in his weapon. Which begs the question, how does he get such a good AC then?

 

[Moon-Lancer]

wow. that’s actually very close to the character I was going to play. did he cheat me!!!!??? Same weapon and everything! oh well, I know i didn’t take this idea from him ... sucks when you think your original. Well I did post this on the optimization forms once but no one responded. The biggest problem I faced was that in dervish dance you can’t attack with fists because its not a slashing weapon. This is what my idea for the build would be.

1 Monk: (cobra strike): (2Flaws) dodge, Combat Reflexes, Combat expert, Deft Opportunist
2 Monk: (cobra strike): mobility
3 Fighter: weapon focus, Karmatic Strike
4 Fighter: Power attack
5 Barb:
6 Barb: Shorten Grip <------ must have feat. makes dervish dance worth it. its in dc1
7 Dervish:
8 Dervish:
9 Dervish: Elusive Target
10 Dervish:
11 Dervish:
12 Dervish: Close-Quarters Fighting

may I ask when he created his character? i want to know if he used my post on wizards or if it was just strangers in the night...

Legildur, its not that bad to multiclass from a monk to fighter to barb. In this build its quite easy to work with story elements to slowly break away from the conservative spiritual aspect of the monk to the passionate unrestrained barbarian with levels of fighter in the middle to act as a distiller for the monk.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The biggest problem I faced was that in dervish dance you can’t attack with fists because its not a slashing weapon.

Isn't there a feat in PHBII that lets you treat Unarmed Strikes as Slashing?

-Hyp.

 

[BadMojo]

Isn't there a feat in PHBII that lets you treat Unarmed Strikes as Slashing?

-Hyp.

Versatile Unarmed Strike (catchy name, eh?) is in PHBII. It lets you change your unarmed strike to piercing, bludgeoning or slashing as a swift action.

 

[Mav]

You can achieve very high armor without much of anything for armor. We have someone who went dragon disciple in our group, and with all feats, fighting full defensive etc.. he gets somewhere around 50AC with no armor. He has like 8 or 9 dex bonus, +3 natural from Dragon Disciple, he is a 6 sorc/4 fighter/7 dragon disciple. He has a +3 shield (5 ac), and a Rapier +4 of Defense. He always keeps Mage Armor up, Ring of protection +2, Necklace of Natural Armor +4

So right there he has:

10 - Base
7 - Natural (3 from DD, 4 from necklace)
9 - Dex
5 - Shield
2 - Ring
4 - Weapon
2 - Defensive
5 - Combat Expertise
44 AC fighting Defensive + Combat Expertise. Full Defensive he gets more. Mage Armor wasn't listed in those calculations because it doesn't stack with one of the other items he has, but he keeps it up for the ethereal protection.

He also has like 19 points in tumble, so if he is tumbling, he gets +3 to AC (+1 for every 5 points in Tumble)

Once again, there are always ways of manipulating skills and combining them with items to get maximum output. His character can block hits with his AC like a mofo... his only problem is he doesn't put out the damage, so when he hits for 20, and the rogue hits for 200, the dragon says "Screw you, I'm hungry for Orc Rogue"...

Just let it play out. You'd be suprised, some characters don't come out of their shell until higher levels (like casters) while others gain power early, but it ramps up slower, allowing you to catch up. You should see when Dervs get to like level 9 or 10 derv skill, level 15 or 16 total... with skills and abilities etc.. our derv like once or twice per day, can bust out 11 attacks in one round. Works great when we put Fires of Purity on him =)