Is the DM the most important person at the table

[Shiroiken]

How does this fit RPG systems and approaches that don't have a "the adventure" or "the plot" established in advance?

I'm unfamiliar with any system that's completely player driven, so I can't comment on those.

Hexcrawls and other random adventures have little to no DM input, except as judge, and can even be played without a DM. Published adventures also require little to no DM input, as the author's hat has been worn by another.

 

[Nagol]

How does this fit RPG systems and approaches that don't have a "the adventure" or "the plot" established in advance?

The GM is still the primary pilot and navigator. Scene framing and consequence assignment are massive powers. You're running an 1930's film noir but want to include Flash Gordon? The GM can get there trivially.

 

[prabe]

How does this fit RPG systems and approaches that don't have a "the adventure" or "the plot" established in advance?

One could consider it to mean "the adventure" or "the plot" as agreed around the table. Even in a purely character-focused game, things will at a given time be moving in a direction, and being the one player fighting this is arguably uncool.

 

[Hussar]

The idea that a player is just a ‘passive consumer’ because he doesn’t want to run games is ridiculous. A player who ‘turns his brain off’ at the table is still contributing to the game.

As for who is running those 5ed games: new DMs, just as there’s new players. With every new batch of gamers introduced to the hobby, there’ll be a certain number who enjoy DMing - it’s just that they’re a minority.

Nope, not ridiculous. I'm utterly sick and tired of players who figure that simply turning up every week and throwing a handful of dice is actually contributing to the game. Look, if all you (the general you, not you specifically) want to do is throw some dice, I have a whole shelf full of board games that we can break out, have a great time at and it doesn't entail me doing any extra work outside of the table. Fantastic. Love to do that.

But, no, as DM, I'm not here to entertain you. Pitch in an do your part and contribute or GTFO. These passive players who figure that throwing a die roll every few minutes is "contributing" to the game are some of the most energy sucking vampires at the table. Give me power gamers, munchkins and rules lawyers over these wastes of space any day of the week. At least those others are actually engaged in the game.

You can tell those who never DM at character generation. Those who DM who get to play almost always make characters with an eye towards how this will play out in the group, complete with connections to the campaign and probably a few solid hooks for the DM to latch onto. These passive players come to the table with cipher, man with no name characters, whose parents are long dead and have zero connection to the game. Dance for us Mr. DM, we are here to be entertained! they cry.

I'm just utterly sick and tired of players like that. Either pitch in and do your part of get lost. You don't deserve to be in the hobby.

 

[Sadras]

For my part I have always felt the DM IS the most important person at the table, even when I'm a player. The DM does most, and sometimes all, the prep work, wears the most hats and for better or worse is the weaver of the main storyline (if there is one) and its subsidiaries as well as those central to the PCs.

We are all entertaining each other, but the DM, like it or not, bears much of the responsibility of the game.

It is far easier to play than DM.

 

[macd21]

How does this fit RPG systems and approaches that don't have a "the adventure" or "the plot" established in advance?

The DM is even more important in those cases, as he has to be able to adapt on the fly. It requires a greater familiarity with the rules and setting than even the usual high standards expected of a DM, and an ability to apply that knowledge quickly and well.

 

[macd21]

Nope, not ridiculous. I'm utterly sick and tired of players who figure that simply turning up every week and throwing a handful of dice is actually contributing to the game. Look, if all you (the general you, not you specifically) want to do is throw some dice, I have a whole shelf full of board games that we can break out, have a great time at and it doesn't entail me doing any extra work outside of the table. Fantastic. Love to do that.

But, no, as DM, I'm not here to entertain you. Pitch in an do your part and contribute or GTFO. These passive players who figure that throwing a die roll every few minutes is "contributing" to the game are some of the most energy sucking vampires at the table. Give me power gamers, munchkins and rules lawyers over these wastes of space any day of the week. At least those others are actually engaged in the game.

You can tell those who never DM at character generation. Those who DM who get to play almost always make characters with an eye towards how this will play out in the group, complete with connections to the campaign and probably a few solid hooks for the DM to latch onto. These passive players come to the table with cipher, man with no name characters, whose parents are long dead and have zero connection to the game. Dance for us Mr. DM, we are here to be entertained! they cry.

I'm just utterly sick and tired of players like that. Either pitch in and do your part of get lost. You don't deserve to be in the hobby.

Y’know, when you explain it like that... still ridiculous.

 

[Umbran]

I would argue that the DM is the single most important participant only because there would be no game without them.

If the game doesn't happen, the other people, individually or as a group, will go find something else to do. There's a ton of other things for folks to do these days. Heck, they could also just find or play another game! This somewhat puts a hole in the idea of "no game" without the GM.

There won't be the particular GM's game if the GM isn't there. But there will be something else. There will be no unfilled void in anyone's life.

Go to the library (or, maybe your own bookshelf), and pull any one book off the shelf. The author is important because without them, that book would not exist? Now, look at all the other books in the library. There are tend of thousands of them! If the author/GM is only as important as the book/story they told... how important is it, really?

 

[macd21]

If the game doesn't happen, the other people, individually or as a group, will go find something else to do. There's a ton of other things for folks to do these days. Heck, they could also just find or play another game! This somewhat puts a hole in the idea of "no game" without the GM.

There won't be the particular GM's game if the GM isn't there. But there will be something else. There will be no unfilled void in anyone's life.

Go to the library (or, maybe your own bookshelf), and pull any one book off the shelf. The author is important because without them, that book would not exist? Now, look at all the other books in the library. There are tend of thousands of them! If the author/GM is only as important as the book/story they told... how important is it, really?

The question isn’t ‘how important is the DM in the greater scheme of things?’ It’s whether the DM is the most important player at the table, in the context of an RPG game. Yes, the author is important, because without him the book wouldn’t exist. The existence of other books doesn’t change that.

EDIT: it’s not comparing the DM to every other entertainment activity available, it’s comparing the DM to the other players at the table.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Nope, not ridiculous. I'm utterly sick and tired of players who figure that simply turning up every week and throwing a handful of dice is actually contributing to the game. Look, if all you (the general you, not you specifically) want to do is throw some dice, I have a whole shelf full of board games that we can break out, have a great time at and it doesn't entail me doing any extra work outside of the table. Fantastic. Love to do that.

But, no, as DM, I'm not here to entertain you. Pitch in an do your part and contribute or GTFO. These passive players who figure that throwing a die roll every few minutes is "contributing" to the game are some of the most energy sucking vampires at the table. Give me power gamers, munchkins and rules lawyers over these wastes of space any day of the week. At least those others are actually engaged in the game.

You can tell those who never DM at character generation. Those who DM who get to play almost always make characters with an eye towards how this will play out in the group, complete with connections to the campaign and probably a few solid hooks for the DM to latch onto. These passive players come to the table with cipher, man with no name characters, whose parents are long dead and have zero connection to the game. Dance for us Mr. DM, we are here to be entertained! they cry.

I'm just utterly sick and tired of players like that. Either pitch in and do your part of get lost. You don't deserve to be in the hobby.

Whereas I have no problem with most players like that. Sure, if you had a table of nothing but passive players it might be a problem. I've never actually seen that happen, but it's probably happened to someone, somewhere.

I've had many passive players over the years and I've rarely found any of them to suck the energy away. They don't tend to drive the game much, if at all, but they're happy to participate, cheer on the party, and follow along with whatever cockamamie scheme the more active players have devised. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, to some extent you need that. Too many strong egos at the table can grind the game to a halt while they debate their next course of action (sometimes for hours).

I can only think of one time when a passive player actually caused a problem at the table, and it was because that player wasn't so much interested in playing as hooking up with another player. That, I'll admit, can be an issue: when you're at the table for reasons other than to have fun gaming.

Overall, however, I have nothing against passive players. IMO, it takes all kinds of different personality types and gaming styles to make up the ideal group.