Is the original Tomb of Horrors a well-designed adventure module?

[Gentlegamer]

Well, the books claim it's heroic fantasy. In that sense adventure which requires you to use henchmen to clear minefields isn't necessarily good design.

The module doesn't require this tactic. It's just the one chosen by the lawful evil Robilar.

 

[grodog]

A couple of points:

1. While Tomb of Horrors was run as an AD&D tourney at Origins #1 it was not specifically designed for that tourney (unlike the A-series modules, for example). The adventure was run in Gary's home game; Rob Kuntz and Ernie Gygax both played it as part of the Greyhawk Campaign, using their real, non-one-shot PCs Robliar and Tenser.
2. I'm not sure that the opinion on this module doesn't boil down to a lot of arbitrary criteria: whether it suits the gaming style of a particular group of players and DM, whether players and DMs like puzzles, whether the game is played with long-run PCs who are killed and lost fairly or unfairly (depending on your POV), etc., etc. So, I thought I'd try an experiment to see if edition wars and play styles are really the root of the love/hate polarity about this module, by creating a similar poll for a 3.5 ToH-style adventure. Feel free to check it out at http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=168683 (Quasqueton, if you think this is derailing your thread too much, let me know and I'll delete it, since I don't want to derail this one like I did your maps thread).

 

[Melan]

It doesn't make sense to me either. If I had the resources to create the ToH and I really wanted anyone entering dead, the entire thing would consist of three fake corridors, every 5 ft of which would hit you with half a dozen 8th or 9th lvl "save or die" spells. Why stop halfway and create something that people might actually be able to get through? The only reason that it is the way it is happens to be a metagame reason - the ToH is in a game.

Precisely! In fact, I will hazard to say that that is all that matters, because it is the players sitting around the game table who matter, not the NPCs and certainly not the milieu. Although a milieu sitting around a game table is a bewildering concept. Verisimilitude is only important to the extent that it contributes to the enjoyment of the players. (And I say the same thing about player characters - they are merely the extensions or puppets of the players; any "independent personality" is an ideology for the player who enjoys playing in a certain style.) Tomb of Horrors was built to challenge players first and foremost.

 

[Elfdart]

Well, the books claim it's heroic fantasy. In that sense adventure which requires you to use henchmen to clear minefields isn't necessarily good design.

Doesn't mean your PCs (or mine) have to be "heroic". They can be cowardly, stupid, greedy, two-faced... you name it. Lord Robilar was evil, so he had no compunction about letting his orc stooges do all the work while he reaped the rewards.

Besides, surviving this module is in and of itself "heroic", no matter how ruthless the tactics you use might be.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

It doesn't make sense to me either. If I had the resources to create the ToH and I really wanted anyone entering dead, the entire thing would consist of three fake corridors, every 5 ft of which would hit you with half a dozen 8th or 9th lvl "save or die" spells. Why stop halfway and create something that people might actually be able to get through? The only reason that it is the way it is happens to be a metagame reason - the ToH is in a game.

Because he WANTS people to make it through. The cream of the crop, the best of the best make it through, get their souls sucked and add to his treasure horde.

 

[shilsen]

Because he WANTS people to make it through. The cream of the crop, the best of the best make it through, get their souls sucked and add to his treasure horde.

[pet peeve]hoard[/pet peeve]

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Well, the books claim it's heroic fantasy. In that sense adventure which requires you to use henchmen to clear minefields isn't necessarily good design.

So good design means the module must be geard for LG players? I'm not sure if I understand what you mean by good design. Are players with evil PC's guilty of the gaming crime of "badwrongfun"? Should every module be geared for good player characters? Of course the Tomb isn't geard for any alignment, Robilar's way is just one possible tactic.