Is The Paladin Weak?

[Gargoyle]

I don't think the 3.5 paladin is too weak. I think all the classes are...I guess I should explain:

I'd like to see all player characters receive more feats. No one should have as many as the fighter, but they could all use more to make them stand out, and to allow for "weak" choices. For instance, if a paladin had three or more extra feat choices, there is a chance that player might choose a feat or two that reflected the paladin's personality, like Animal Affinity or Toughness, rather than something that is more typically chosen, like the ones on Shark's list. A wizard with a couple more feat choices might take a seldom used metamagic feat, or even Skill Focus (Craft: alchemy) to reflect a penchant for making strange items.

All this makes the player characters more powerful, but it's easy enough to ratchet up the power and numbers of opponents, and to treat major villains the same.

Edit: Had to edit multiple times to finish the post...sorry about that; I'm on my laptop at GenCon and keep hitting Enter by accident on this little keyboard....

 

[ForceUser]

Isn't there an option in 3.5 somewhere (DMG, maybe) for a paladin who chooses to not call a special mount to gain bonus feats at a rate of something like 1/5 levels? I think that's a fine tradeoff.

 

[Hjorimir]

Is The Paladin Weak?

No.

 

[Valiantheart]

I don't think the 3.5 paladin is too weak. I think all the classes are...I guess I should explain:

I'd like to see all player characters receive more feats.

I really wouldnt mind if all the classes received a couple extra feats to help round them out, but then the fighter would have to receive a little extra omph to help them out.

1 feat every odd level would provide 10 feats. That would seem like enough for just about any character archetype. The fighter would have to get even more feats which would make him an even greater generalist (read: that would suck) or several higher level fighter only feats.

 

[Olive]

Isn't there an option in 3.5 somewhere (DMG, maybe) for a paladin who chooses to not call a special mount to gain bonus feats at a rate of something like 1/5 levels? I think that's a fine tradeoff.

Makes sense to me. Got a page ref?

 

[JoeGKushner]

I think that there is a little too much focus on the feats for a game like D&D.

What do I mean by that?

This isn't a point based system or a customization system.

It's D&D, levels and classes.

This has many limitations but many freedoms as well.

Those who want more than what D&D has or are expecting more out of it, might want to check out Big Eye Small Mouth, very simple, fun, fast, and now inexpensive, Hero 5th edition, or GURPS. All the feats you want to pay for via points.

 

[Khorod]

I like the odd-numbered bonus character feats, but that would dilute the fighter unless he gained a proportional bonus.

Perhaps if the fighter also gained 4 skill points per level? I would like a fighter who could take a rank of Sot or Hde once in a while without sacrificing all skill points in a level or turning Rogue.

I'd accept skill point balance issue, its arguable that the fighter should get a skill bump anyway.

For a knight like those of the Round Table, that's likely a prestige class situation. In trying to become more general, I don't think the core classes are able to singularly model many of the legendary heroes anymore.

 

[Celtavian]

The Paladin is not weak. My biggest problem is one of concept. A Paladin trains to fight religiously. I see no reason why they shouldn't receive bonus feats. They are not like the other fighting classes who train to fight by choice, fighting is expected and required of a Paladin.

Since in D&D 3e feats are the method used to show fighting skills, not prowess mind you which is BAB, but skill, then I see no reason to deny a Holy Warrior who spends their life training for the war against evil bonus feats. It fits conceptually, and it has not broken my game.

The main reason it hasn't broken my game is because I am hard on Paladins. I expect them to act in a Lawful Good honorable manner that is not open to moral debate. They have chosen the path of the ultimate dedicated holy warrior and gained all the benefits given them by a deity they love, honor and worship. My expectations are high for players who choose the class, which makes it no more or less desirable to play than any other.

 

[Cedric]

I appreciate what you are saying...with the prospect of playing a Paladin in the Forgotten Realms coming up, I've decided to play an Aasimar Paladin of Lathander from Cormyr.

I realized early on that I could never accomplish what I wanted with the character as a straight Paladin. Since I am going to be starting at 11th level (joining a pre-existing campaign)...I've more or less plotted out my advancement.

Fighter 1
Paladin 5
Purple Dragon Knight 5 (FRCS)
Noble Adventurer 4 (Drgn Mgz 307)
Divine Champion 5 (FRCS)

I've decided to use my leadership feat to take a Paladin's Mount for a Cohort...that will make up for my mount not advancing through additional Paladin levels.

The end result is I get most of the special abilities of a Paladin (no remove disease), some minor spell casting ability (one 1st level spell) and an extra 5 Feats (3 of them from the warrior list).

Planning my feats out as...

Power Attack
Mounted Combat
Discipline (free - FRCS)
Celestial Bloodline (Races of Faerun)
Leadership
Eyes of Light (Races of Faerun)
Divine Might (DoTF)
Critical Strike (Greatsword)
Ride-By Attack
Spirited Charge
Weapon Focus: Mace
Divine Vigor
Trample

Obviously all of this is subject to change...there is that little thing known as surviving that I'll have to overcome...heh.

Cedric

 

[Anubis the Doomseer]

I thought Percival was Arthurs greatest night? Galahad and Gawain were the most pious.

Parzival is sort of a splice-in, not native to Arthurian myths. He's more general (French? Italian?) variation on the christian ideal knight.