D&D 5E Is the sleep spell d&d 5e too powerful

[neogod22]

Let' say the wizard cats the spell so that he is not in the area of affect? I want you to look at it as purely tactical. I mean, he has the capability of wiping out the group! Statistically speaking

It has the chance of wiping out a group of Kobolds. Mist creatures with more than 5hp, you'll be lucky to take out more than 2 or 3. Also, the spell does no damage and ends when someone takes an action to wake a sleeping person up, or they take damage. The spell is good for taking 2-5 minor enemies out of the fight, but that's about it.

 

[Jasondd]

Can you answer my question (from my example) please, thank you. A 1st level wizard has a high chance of wiping out the rest of his party with one spell, sleep!

 

[neogod22]

Yet my example still stands. A player (wizard level 1) can wipe out a group of players level 1 with high probability! All the while using the rules...

Ok let's use your lvl 1 PvP example. Let's say it's a party of 6. Fighter, Paladin, rogue, cleric, and sorcerer. The wizard casts sleep on the party. Let's say they are all optimal builds. So (Hp), F=13, P=12, R=9, C=9, S=6. Wizard rolls 22hp for sleep. He will take out the sorcerer and cleric or rogue. That's it, and by the time the round ends, he's dead. It doesn't work in a PVP scenario, it doesn't do much when used properly unless you're fighting kobolds like I said.

 

[LordEntrails]

Sure, if the entire party is standing next to each other and they let all the wizard go first then what you say might happen. Tough even with a crit 12 hp will be tough for most wizards to get to at 1st level. And that's assuming that with a party of 4, with the HPs you've given, he someone manages to do 35 HP worth of sleep, which he won't.

No sleep is not overpowered. No we do not think it is too powerful.

 

[Jasondd]

Once again, you say six. I say 4 ( 3 not including yourself) even easier a party of 3. So once again, a 1st level spell capable of wiping out 2 ( possibly 3) party members with a high probablity chance of success!

 

[Jasondd]

I'm looking at this from a purely statistical point of view (which many players do) and I find that it is way too powerful. There should be a saving throw or some kind of modification?

 

[the Jester]

Can you answer my question (from my example) please, thank you. A 1st level wizard has a high chance of wiping out the rest of his party with one spell, sleep!

A 1st level rogue is probably more likely to TPK his party if he's a serial killer, simply by waiting until they are all asleep and going for a quiet auto-crit with sneak attack against each of 'em.

No, sleep isn't overpowered. Not even in your original scenario. You are ignoring the fact that as soon as the wizard does any damage to one of his buddies, that buddy wakes up... and can potentially wake another on his turn. Or just drop the wizard in one attack.

You should never check whether a feature is balanced by looking at a best-case pvp situation. You might not like that answer, but it's truly not how you determine the balance of things in D&D.

 

[Jasondd]

Sure, if the entire party is standing next to each other and they let all the wizard go first then what you say might happen. Tough even with a crit 12 hp will be tough for most wizards to get to at 1st level. And that's assuming that with a party of 4, with the HPs you've given, he someone manages to do 35 HP worth of sleep, which he won't.

No sleep is not overpowered. No we do not think it is too powerful.

The group doesn't even know there getting attacked, Bam (out of the blue and out of the affected area) he casts sleep!

 

[darjr]

Naw! Sleep is fine. At first level it can be a wowzer but those first level PCs are fragile. And it’s been more often than I’d of thought that PCs get caught in it too.

 

[Jasondd]

A 1st level rogue is probably more likely to TPK his party if he's a serial killer, simply by waiting until they are all asleep and going for a quiet auto-crit with sneak attack against each of 'em.

No, sleep isn't overpowered. Not even in your original scenario. You are ignoring the fact that as soon as the wizard does any damage to one of his buddies, that buddy wakes up... and can potentially wake another on his turn. Or just drop the wizard in one attack.

You should never check whether a feature is balanced by looking at a best-case pvp situation. You might not like that answer, but it's truly not how you determine the balance of things in D&D.

A quarter staff does 1d8 + 1d8 (critical) + any other bonuses (advantage). So high chance of killing the rogue, then the cleric and maybe finish off the fighter.