D&D 5E Is the sleep spell d&d 5e too powerful

[FrogReaver]

Ok, thanks alot for your comments, Input and keeping it clean. I hope this has been educational and wish you all great fun in your future adventures! Take care

But you are flat out wrong. There's a low chance the single wizard wins this encounter

 

[FrogReaver]

Yet my example still stands. A player (wizard level 1) can wipe out a group of players level 1 with high probability! All the while using the rules...

Low probability. Give a Fighter, Cleric, or Barbarian a surprise round and they'll have a higher chance of taking out level 1 PC's.

 

[FrogReaver]

The group doesn't even know there getting attacked, Bam (out of the blue and out of the affected area) he casts sleep!

Why not? How do you know they weren't suspicious and wary of their backstabbing wizard friend long before now?

 

[FrogReaver]

All I'm saying is that a 1st level wizard can very easily kill two other 1st levels (possibly 3) without it being complicated or in the least difficult (no saving throw). This cannot be said for any other 1st level class or spell (that I know of) Even "command" (also spell level 1) in which you say "sleep" has 1 round effectiveness with a saving throw! And affects only 1 person...

Still have to roll adequate hp - and if even one stays awake they can daisy chain the others back awake.

 

[FrogReaver]

I think the moral of this thread is that backstabbing your friends while they sleep is the easiest way for any character to kill more PC's than they normally would.

But perhaps even more importantly - we must ask - what happens to the player that backstabs the other characters in their sleep?

As such any scenario where you backstab your friends pc's to death just because you can is already controlled via out of game methods.

To drive the point home - you could have a spell that killed all other PC's outright with no chance of a save and it still wouldn't be overpowered - because that scenario is already guarded against via out of game consequences.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Low probability. Give a Fighter, Cleric, or Barbarian a surprise round and they'll have a higher chance of taking out level 1 PC's.

Yep. Rogue has to take longer, but by targeting the heaviest PC first, he can do it pretty easily.

 

[Ashrym]

My decadent lifestyle of cortesans and exotic pets soaks up the hp first.

The spell works on fodder and significantly worn down opponents. It struggles with some 1/4 CR and many 1/2 CR opponents, and even some higher hp CR 1/8 beasts. 5e uses hp restrictions as an alternative to saves as also demonstrated in power word spells, and just like those spells it typically ends up being more restrictive than a saving throw.

It doesn't work on undead, beings immune to charm, or anything immune to sleep effects on top of the hp threshold.

The only thing the OP's premise shows is that it's useful under the right circumstances. It's decent against weak targets at low level and becomes niche fast.

 

[ccs]

I hope this has been educational

Yup. It's brought another nonsense spewing newb/troll to my attention for me to consider using the ignore button on.