Is the Spiked Chain Fighter really that Cheesy?

[Moon-Lancer]

actually in a tournament i played in, a kid from my school really knew how to use her. he was a total pro. It was kind of sick to watch, but I did beat him now and again (go siegfried). the computer in my experience dosen't use ivy as good as it could be. The computers only advantage is it can counter really good (that goes for all characters the computer plays). aside from that, the computer generally doesn't know when to use the right moves. hell even i can use ivy better then the computer and i don't player her that much.

now maxi, theirs one heck of a button smasher (ok so i don't know him very well).

*ahem*

anyway the flavor for the spiked chain can be changed. theirs also brotherhood of the wolf. It also uses a whip sword like weapon very much like ivys. and its a live action movie. so yeah... its not too impossible to visualize, and thierfor isen't cheese in my opinion.

*some edits*

 

[Moon-Lancer]

while having a whole army with spiked chain users my be a bit odd, i think its perfectly acceptable for hero to wield a unwieldy weapon because they are special or uneq. In my opinion their should be more exotic weapons worth a feat.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

IMO, the point of the spiked chain isn't that it's dangerous. What it IS, is annoying. The barbarian is pretty straightforward: he hits you, you hit him, eventually one of you goes down. The spiked chain guy, OTOH, is all about stopping you hitting him. Close in, AoO, trip, you fall down; on his turn, disarm, you lose your weapon.

I agree. The spiked chain can be annoying when turned on you, but it's only really useful against humanoids and other not-big weapon wielders. Against monsters, your lack of damage shows up pretty clearly.

Brad

 

[Nazhkandrias]

The Spiked Chain is only slightly overpowered on a Medium creature if used and abused properly. Its true power shines when in the hands of a Large creature. Even then, the Spiked Chain can be circumvented fairly easily by a savvy DM. If a player starts getting cocky with Improved Trip, guess what? They just earned a trip to an evil Yuan-Ti monastery. Not much tripping against those snake-tailed Halfbloods, Abominations, and their huge snake minions. Or, simply send a squad of Elven snipers at them. The three best ways to stop a Spiked Chain trip monkey is to use monsters resistant to trip, ranged attacks, and larger creatures (a common feature in most campaigns anyway). Or, another Spiked Chain wielder, for that matter. Overall, I DO allow Spiked Chains, but if it becomes a problem, the monsters MIGHT get smarter and start to use ranged attacks.

As for a good Spiked Chain wielder, consider the Goliath. Powerful Build increases trip effectiveness and weapon sizes, and they have no racial penalty to Int, making them ideal for a Spiked Chain wielder. Try these stats out, for a Fighter 9/Barbarian 1 Goliath put into MM format for your viewing pleasure.

[sblock=Goliath Fighter/Barbarian]
Goliath, 9th-Level Fighter/1st-Level Barbarian
Medium Monstrous Humanoid
Hit Dice: 9d10+36 plus 1d12+4 (101 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 30 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 19 (+7 +2 breastplate, +1 amulet of natural armor +1, +1 Dex)
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+19
Attack: +18 +2 large spiked chain (2d6+10/19-20) or +11 large masterwork composite longbow (+6 Str) (2d6+6/x3)
Full Attack: +18/+13 +2 large spiked chain (2d6+10/19-20) or +11/+6 large masterwork composite longbow (+6 Str) (2d6+6/x3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. (10 ft. with spiked chain)
Special Attacks: Mountain rage
Special Qualities: Acclimated, fast movement 10', mountain movement, powerful build
Saves: Fort +12, Ref +2, Will +1
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 12, Con 18, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 8
Skills: Your choice of 60 skill points, preferably in Intimidate, physical skills, and perception skills. Keep in mind the +2 to Sense Motive.
Feats: Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain), Improved Critical (spiked chain), Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (spiked chain), Weapon Specialization (spiked chain)
Environment: Mountains (any)
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 11
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Chaotic Evil
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +1[/sblock]

This should be pretty accurate (I used equipment as detailed for NPCs in DMG), and it seems pretty potent. Feel free to swap out feats to munchkinize this guy as you see fit, and keep in mind that Mountain Rage bumps you up to Large size, giving you the coveted 20 ft. reach with the Spiked Chain. Hope you enjoy him, I would be frightened by him! Oh, his only major weaknessess are his abyssmal Will and Ref saves, do with these as you see fit. For an extra challenge, try fighting this guy on his home turf - high altitudes. His acclimation means he's alright, but the PCs are at a serious disadvantage.

 

[Piratecat]

Simply put the Spiked Chain is the dumbest thing ever introduced into D&D...

Flail snail.
Enveloper.
Carbuncle.
Flumph.

Ever since I saw the Jackie Chan movie where he fights someone with a red-hot steel chain, I've liked the weapon. Of course, my players have never tried to use one...

 

[Erywin]

When I get back home, I might try building up a Crusader Swordsage using a spiked chain, I remember alot of feats and or manuvers being useful together. There is that Feat that while in a shadwhand stance you get Dex and Str to damage, altho hotly debated wether or not thats a typo in the text.

Cheers,
E

edit: Make that Swordsage instead of Crusader

 

[Tetsubo]

Flail snail.
Enveloper.
Carbuncle.
Flumph.

Ever since I saw the Jackie Chan movie where he fights someone with a red-hot steel chain, I've liked the weapon. Of course, my players have never tried to use one...

Did said chain have spikes projecting from each link, piercing Mr. Chan's hands?

Chain weapons are odd but viable weapons. SPIKED chains are abominations in the eyes of all that is holy.

They. Are. Dumb.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Yep. And Ivy is FECKIN' ANNOYING to play against.

Well, when she's being run by the AI, that is. When it's a human, she's deadmeat because no ordinary human has a clue how to control that damn whip.

I can do that move where it flies into 10000000 pieces and attacks; I'll beat you down in some Soul Calibur as Ivy!

Well, I would have about five years ago at least...

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Did said chain have spikes projecting from each link, piercing Mr. Chan's hands?

Chain weapons are odd but viable weapons. SPIKED chains are abominations in the eyes of all that is holy.

They. Are. Dumb.

swords are dumb because you cant hold the blade and not get cut.

see, both these arguments are strawmen.

 

[Nazhkandrias]

Did said chain have spikes projecting from each link, piercing Mr. Chan's hands?

Well, obviously that picture of a Spiked Chain is absolute bupkis, as is the picture of the Scythe. An actual Spiked Chain would have a good-sized chunk of it free of spikes to use as a grip. A viable Scythe would be wielded as Astaroth wields Thanatos in SC2. The one pictured is simply for cutting grass.

But the point is, I don't think any weapon should be disallowed based on how realistic or feasible it is in real-life. D&D is all about over-the-top heroics and theatrics - physics and "could it be done in real life" shouldn't enter into it - why else would we play it if we were limited by what we can do in real life? The key term here is fantasy. Ah yes, fantasy; a world of ridiculously oversized weapons, crazy plans and maneuvers, giant beasts that make no biological sense, and the craziest weapons imaginable!

I can do that move where it flies into 10000000 pieces and attacks; I'll beat you down in some Soul Calibur as Ivy!

The input time required for that move is ridiculous. A quick Jade Crusher, Dark Bite, or throw from even a slow character like Nightmare (SC2 Nightmare, my main man) will put a quick end to that. In addition, any 8WR counters will destroy you. It's about the most situational move in the game, and it only works if your opponent doesn't know Ivy at all. Trust me, stick to her stance variations.