Is the U.S. behind in the sciences?

[Zappo]

You think you're lagging? My country, thanks to exceptionally good public schools and universities, and exceptionally stingy research funding, "exports" quality experts just about everywhere in the world. Ironically, this wastes even more money in the long run, since the state spends billions to teach people - who then go and bring their preparation abroad. It's depressing.

 

[GentleGiant]

The US just doesn't pursue the controversial sciences that draw attention as much as other nations do. Hence, you don't hear about the US making wild neato awesome advances as much as like in the EU and Japan, where scruples are hard to find and anything is game for research.

We're ahead, but not in a spectacularly visible manner.

[Emphasis mine]
That's quite a broad and, to say the least, wildly offensive statement... care to back up your claim with hard facts or are you just mouthing off about something you don't know anything about?

 

[Morrus]

and in Europe many countries don't start until seven or so.

What?!? Where on earth did you hear that?

I mean, this conversation is in context of the Western world, right? Poor Eastern European countries are really no more relevant to the conversation than poor African countries are. I know of no Western country which starts teaching kids to read at seven.

 

[Umbran]

Studies show no other single thing impacts a classroom like a quality teacher.

Huh. d20fool, I'm suprised that you, a teacher yourself, would say this. In my experience there is one thing that impacts a classroom more than a quality teacher - quality parenting. Respect and desire for education begins at home. And the teacher generally can't do diddly if the kids don't have it.

How to you attract quality teachers. You have to get a little wild, a little crazy, think outside the box and PAY THEM. Yep, that's what works. The ol' pay-the-teacher trick.

Amen! However, money doesn't grow on trees. You know that respect and desire for education that begins at home? Well, it's the parents who pay the taxes that go into teacher salaries.

Honestly, there is NOT a teacher shortage in that there are not enought people qualified to teach. There is a teacher shortage of people who can afford to teach.

Well, that depends upon what you call "qualified". There may be a great many people who have the technical knowledge of their fields to teach. But teaching itself is a skill set that you don't usually get without doing it.

Plus, it depends upon where you live. In Massachusetts, for example, within the next two years, a full 40% of the public school teachers will become elegible for retirement with full benefits. And in MA, while the salaries aren't up to corporate levels, the retirement package is pretty darned sweet for old-timers. There's very little incentive for them to stay on, and MA may well have a serious shortage of people who are qualified to teach.

I am not going to speak on the subject of NCLB. I think of it as far too political to touch here.

 

[Andre]

A couple points for consideration:

1. There seems to be a consensus that introductory education in the sciences is not terribly good in the United States. Advanced education in the sciences, however, attracts some of the best and brightest both within the United States and from around the world. This is a function of both money and opportunity, given the large number of universities and research centers within the U.S.

2. For decades, those who've come to the United States often stayed. It was a simple matter of the economic opportunities being so much greater in the U.S. than in their home countries. In some cases, e.g., India, the difference was 10,000% or more.

Concerning the second point, however, we've begun to see that international communications, such as the internet, are now sophisticated enough that these graduates can return to their home countries and still earn a very comfortable living - often doing work for American and European companies and even governments.

This is not intended to be an "outsourcing is bad" observation. I'm simply wondering how much effect it will have on U.S. scientific advancement if this trend continues. A little? A lot?

 

[R-Hero]

Hats off to all EN worlders

This is a subject, posted anywere else, would have evolved into an ugly flame war.

It has been thought provoking and (somewhat)freindly. As a US. vet, I can get my feelings hurt easly when talking about my home. I've seen few petty barbs here at EN World.

It says something for the class of people that play RPGs. (Moderators included)

Huzzah!.

 

[DaveStebbins]

You can't use patents awarded because different countries award patents differently. U.S. policy is to award a patent when in doubt and let someone fight it if that decision was wrong.

OK, how about something more global, like the number of nobel prizes won in the sciences?

 

[drothgery]

I mean, this conversation is in context of the Western world, right? Poor Eastern European countries are really no more relevant to the conversation than poor African countries are.

Err... poor eastern European countries, for the most part, are much, much richer than poor African countries; South Africa is the only African country with a per capita GDP at roughly Eastern European levels (~$10,000); Albania is the only country in Europe with a per capita GDP at "rich African" levels (~$5000).

 

[drothgery]

OK, how about something more global, like the number of nobel prizes won in the sciences?

Okay, since 1999 (there were a lot of split Prizes, so well more than 5 were awarded in each discipline)

Physics
Americans - 7
Non-Americans working in the US - 4
Others - 4

Chemistry
Americans - 7
Non-Americans working in the US - 3
Others - 5

Medicine
Americans - 6
Non-Americans working in the US - 3
Others - 5

 

[Rel]

It says something for the class of people that play RPGs. (Moderators included)

Huzzah!.

I think it says something about the class of people at ENWorld. I've not met a finer group of people anywhere, in person, online or otherwise.