Is the Warlock the Best Class?

RSIxidor

Explorer
Charisma-caster classes are the best classes, and Warlock is the best of them, so yeah.

I also like the limit of two short rests before needing a long rest. I'd even give the option to continue going with short rests at the risk of exhaustion, if the players want some more flexibility.
 

Krachek

Explorer
The warlock have some flaws.
In design I mean.
The pact of the blade need some rework. And rather than do it, they correct it by adding the hexbalde patron. What a shame.
The fey patron is a nice opening. It allow to play a warlock as a witch who serve a archFey. But the celestial patron is pushing too far. They should have add more option the existing patron and pact.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen
The warlock have some flaws.
In design I mean.
The pact of the blade need some rework. And rather than do it, they correct it by adding the hexbalde patron. What a shame.
The fey patron is a nice opening. It allow to play a warlock as a witch who serve a archFey. But the celestial patron is pushing too far. They should have add more option the existing patron and pact.
Yeah, the blade pact is definitely the weakest option. Shadow Blade and the SCAG cantrips help, as does the Eldritch Smite Invocation, but it’s still a suboptimal melee combatant. Hexblade is good, but ironically better with Tome or Chain than Blade. But gishes in 5e are all pretty awkward, and the Blade Warlock, while it suffers from this, is still very playable, even if it won’t be the MVP of the party.
 

Salthorae

Imperial Mountain Dew Taster
I don't know, I wasn't involved in the games referred to. "nothing but blasting" was said I think.

I can think of a couple of warlock characters who seem interesting to me, but I haven't had opportunity to play them yet.
As others noted, EB is the easiest thing to do for a warlock and the most boring. If that's all they did and the DM did nothing with patrons... well, none of that is the classes fault :D

I don't like playing bards - but I can tell just how powerful they are, especially Lore. The thing with bards is if they are played well you barely notice they are there - they act as power multipliers for other classes.

I would rather play a character that hits things or blows stuff up, but I'm well aware that that is probably not the most effective tactics.
"Played well" is pretty subjective here.

I played my lore bard in a way that my party and I thought was "played well" and you couldn't help but notice he was there. I certainly didn't multiply anyone else's power but my own.

He was the party face, he was the party blaster, and if asked by the group, he'd sing Songs of Rest to help people recover on short rests :p

Like with the EB Warlock trap. There are tons of different ways to play a bard. You can just be in the background handing out Bardic Inspiration and casting Enhance Ability, Cure wounds, etc. If that's what you want to do, but it's definitely only one way to play them.

Mine WAS blasting/blowing things up and wrecking things in combat even as he used cutting words to keep himself safe from harm in combat.
 
This is a pretty common grievance with the Warlock, but honestly, if you find the Eldritch Blast spam boring, then don’t build an Eldritch Blast warlock. There are so many other viable ways to play a warlock, if you think the class is nothing but blasting, you’re not looking hard enough. Also, if Eldritch Blast spam warlock is boring, what does that say about Fighters?
I'm just reporting what other people have said, but I think the issue is, an eldritch spam warlock is easy to build - other warlocks require a deeper understanding of game mechanics. And frankly most of my group have little interest in game mechanics.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen
I'm just reporting what other people have said, but I think the issue is, an eldritch spam warlock is easy to build - other warlocks require a deeper understanding of game mechanics. And frankly most of my group have little interest in game mechanics.
For sure. EBS warlocks are the easiest to build and to play, and they are one of the most effective ways to build a warlock in terms of pure DPS. It’s a great option that makes the class more approachable for players without a lot of experience or interest in the mechanical side of things to pick up and play. I’d say that’s to the class’s credit. I don’t think it’s really difficult to break away from that EBS style though, if one is so inclined.
 

Dausuul

Legend
I'm just reporting what other people have said, but I think the issue is, an eldritch spam warlock is easy to build - other warlocks require a deeper understanding of game mechanics. And frankly most of my group have little interest in game mechanics.
The thing about EB spam is that you don't need a lot of the warlock build space to do it. One cantrip, one invocation, one 1st-level spell and you're ready to roll. That leaves all your other spells, invocations, and cantrips to play with - to say nothing of skills, feats, racial abilities, etc.

Not to sound like a broken record, but I think this comes back, again, to short rests. A big part of the fun and variety in warlock play comes from your spells. If you don't get to take a rest and refresh those spell slots, you will spend most of your time spamming at-will abilities, and it's gonna get tedious regardless of whether you're spamming EB, or pact weapon attacks, or what have you.
 

Pauln6

Explorer
My Tome Warlock is very versatile out of combat but I'm struggling to find the right spell choices for my combat showstoppers.
 

FrogReaver

Adventurer
@Zardnaar

It seems to me that everything you play or someone in your group plays that you always conclude it's the next best thing since sliced bread.

I don't find warlock's particularly strong - but there's nothing particularly wrong with them.
 

jgsugden

Explorer
What is the real question here? Are you looking for versatility? Power? Enjoyability? Which class would you rather be if it were possible in the real world? Which is easiest to build great story around?

I have now played all of the classes (except Artificer) for at least 5 levels... mot for over 10 and a few all the way to 20.

  • All can be incredibly fun.
  • All can be very effective.
  • Most can be highly versatile (serving as a face for the party, a scout, a bruiser, a controller, etc...)

To that end, I can't decide on a best.
 

FrogReaver

Adventurer
What is the real question here? Are you looking for versatility? Power? Enjoyability? Which class would you rather be if it were possible in the real world? Which is easiest to build great story around?

I have now played all of the classes (except Artificer) for at least 5 levels... mot for over 10 and a few all the way to 20.

  • All can be incredibly fun.
  • All can be very effective.
  • Most can be highly versatile (serving as a face for the party, a scout, a bruiser, a controller, etc...)

To that end, I can't decide on a best.
Best means most effective IMO. Which is always a big subjective but still often based on objective facts.
 

FrogReaver

Adventurer
My Tome Warlock is very versatile out of combat but I'm struggling to find the right spell choices for my combat showstoppers.
Hypnotic Pattern is the best combat spell he gets. Use that when not facing a bbeg. Against a bbeg use direct damage.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
@Zardnaar

It seems to me that everything you play or someone in your group plays that you always conclude it's the next best thing since sliced bread.

I don't find warlock's particularly strong - but there's nothing particularly wrong with them.
We've played almost everything in the phb.

I was probably one of the 1st to pint out the power of the lore bard early after 5E landed.

I do rate stuff based an early levels a lot.

Mostly because that's where most of the game happens.

Also we found the power of the -5/+10 feats and the Sorlock very early on.

We did kind of stumble ourvway into a few things.
By the end of 2014 we had seen

Hand crossbow expert/sharpshooter fighter

Light cleric
Lore bard
Hunter ranger with sharpshooter
Diviner wizard
GWM/PAM fighter

And iirc I was one of the first to put up a basic sorlock thread explaining sacking spell slots to fuel Eldritch blast spam.
 
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FrogReaver

Adventurer
We've played almost everything in the phb.

I was probably one of the 1st to pint out the power of the lore bard early after 5E landed.

I do rate stuff based an early levels a lot.

Mostly because that's where most of the game happens.

Also we found the power of the -5/+10 feats and the Sorlock very early on.

We did kind of stumble ourvway into a few things.
Everyone knew about those things very early. The only ones that denied them were the optimization is bad crowd
 

Zardnaar

Hero
Everyone knew about those things very early. The only ones that denied them were the optimization is bad crowd
I was seeing them get played and posted about it. And put a few builds together.

My old aid is OP (due to the -5/+10 feats), and lore bard is OP things were long ago.

We were playing 2-5 sessions a week so rocketed up the levels so hit level 8-12 fairly fast where the combos come online.
 

FrogReaver

Adventurer
I was seeing them get played and posted about it. And put a few builds together.

My old aid is OP (due to the -5/+10 feats), and lore bard is OP things were long ago.

We were playing 2-5 sessions a week so rocketed up the levels so hit level 8-12 fairly fast where the combos come online.
Oh yea bless - something always acknowledged as a good spell but there Were typically better level 3+ spells you could cast. I think you went a little overboard on that one
 

FrogReaver

Adventurer
Anyways the point is @Zardnaar - you always talk about the things your playing or seeing played like they are the best thing ever. That’s just not the case with the warlock.
 

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