Is the Wealth bonus working?

[CarlZog]

I'm new to d20 modern and a little confounded by the abstracted wealth system.

If character wealth is a substantial part of your game, does the wealth bonus accurately reflect it? Are you happy with it? Has anyone come up with a more tangible variant without getting bogged down?

My apologies in advance if this has been covered before.

Thanks.

CZ

 

[RangerWickett]

The only thing I'd change is to get rid of the penalty for buying something with a purchase DC of 15 or more. Since an international flight has a DC of 22, that would mean that filthy rich folks couldn't afford to fly more than a few times without stopping being filthy rich.

I'd say a few numbers might be off a bit for services, but most of the prices for goods and objects I can live with. If I were to propose a second change, it would be this:

1. If you purchase something between 1 and 5 points higher than your Wealth score, your Wealth goes down by 1 point for one month. For example, my family could afford to go to an amusement park or having a big birthday celebration once a month without running the risk of us going broke.

2. If you purchase something between 6 and 10 points, your score goes down by 1 points for one year. For example, I'm able to go to college by taking out loans and slowly paying them back. In the meanwhile, I'd better not have any great expenses.

3. If you purchase something between 11 and 15 points higher than your Wealth score, your Wealth goes down 1d6 points permanently. If you purchase something 16 or more points higher than your Wealth score, your Wealth goes down 2d6 points permanently. For example, if I buy a house as soon as I get out of college, my wealth will go down a lot, because I'll be having to pay for it for a long time.

Really, though, the system is very well done; a marvel of game design skill. It's simple, and moves the game along with minimal book-keeping.

 

[NekoAli]

To preface, I'll say that my experience with the wealth system is based more on reading and thinking about it, since I've only played one off or short term games in Modern, with one campaign just starting.

I definetly agree that some sort of abstracted system for wealth is a good thing in a world where most items are bought on credit, but I have some strong misgivings as to the way things are set up. As it stands now, your wealth has very little to do with the actual job that you perform, and is based on your level and making Profession roles as you go up. Which means that the longer you go up in levels, the higher your wealth goes. Add to that that you can buy anything up to your wealth level without affecting it normally (until you hit that DC15 cap for cost), and potentially someone could work at a fast food resturant, go up in levels in their part time job as a shadow chaser and wind up being rich enough to buy out the store.... And that's assuming you didn't pick up any wealth bonuses from beating monsters or windfall feats. This doesn't sound right to me...

On the other hand, as RangerWickett pointed out, people with high wealth bonuses still lose points when they try to buy expensive items, even if they could easily afford it. But you could buy an unlimited amount of items costing DC14 or less. Again, doesn't seem right to me.

A better solution I think would be to have a person's wealth bonus set by their job, plus any Windfalls or 'treasure' bonuses they get. Have any iems purchased up to your wealth level cause a temporary loss to your wealth (Maxing our you credit cards for that new car or such), which would recover at a set number depending on your total wealth bonus, say recovering 10-25% a month maybe. Anything you try to purchase over your wealth limit permanantely reduces your Wealth, as you are stretching your credit/available wealth to it's limit. And as Ranger suggested, dump the DC15 cap. Multi-billionaires can afford to fly to Europe for breakfast on a whim without having to cash in their stock options.

Just my +2 Wealth check

 

[Pierce]

The only thing I'd change is to get rid of the penalty for buying something with a purchase DC of 15 or more. Since an international flight has a DC of 22, that would mean that filthy rich folks couldn't afford to fly more than a few times without stopping being filthy rich.

Don't forget that one's wealth bonus is not static. For PCs, gaining wealth is a function of rewards and levelling. For NPCs, consider that they are making profession checks once a month/quarter/year/whatever time period you choose.

Multi-billionaires can afford to fly to Europe for breakfast on a whim without having to cash in their stock options.

Also remember that the wealth bonus denotes how much cash you've got in your pocket at any particular time, not your total net worth, so those multi-billionaires may have wealth bonuses of +248 or some such.

Finally, unless your character IS a multibillionaire, then what does it matter how many first class transatlantic SST flights they can take? They can take as many as the GM wants! Rule 0 the wealth checks for NPCs, give them what they need to BE the character they are and don't get bogged down in the details. That's why the wealth system is abstracted in the first place.

But that's just my opinion, I may be wrong....

 

[Pierce]

Just a follow-up

This is a bit of a tanget, but one thing we have implemented in our game is a way to buy used vehicles. I don't know if my GM came up with this system or if he got the idea from somewhere else. Nevertheless, here goes:

The player may find the car he wants to buy in the local classifieds. The price listed for the vehicle sets the DC for the purchase. However, the player must subtract a number of points equal to the difference between this DC and the purchase DC the equivalent new vehicle from one or more of the following: Init, maneuver, top speed (chase scale), defense, hardness, or HP. Also, any time the vehicle is started in a combat situation, the driver must make a check vs. the difference in purchase DCs to start. This way, a character may buy a really crappy car and have stats that reflect it.

For example, I found a 1985 Ford F150 in the local paper for $1000. The Purchase DC for that is 18. The listed Purchase DC in the book for a new F150 is 28. Therefore, I've got a difference of 10; I have to reduce one or more of my vehicle stats by a total of 10 points. Also, any time I really need it to start, I have to make a check of DC10 (straight d20 roll) - it's only going to start half the time.

And yes, this has come up in game. One time, I needed to start the truck in a hurry to follow a van and they ended up with a 4 round lead .

 

[Spatula]

Well, that's a lot better than the useless 'used items' rule from the d20 Modern book.

 

[Old Drew Id]

Something else I thought of on the Wealth system: I agree that, given time, the PC's wealth levels will keep rising faster than it makes sense for them to, and eventually beyond the reasonable limit for their chosen professions. One simple way to handle that is to put the burden on the player to explain it. Perhaps the character is playing the stock market in their spare time, or they inherited some cash from a distant relative, or they won the lotto. But for games where the DM would prefer a little more control, I would suggest this:

A PC's maximum wealth level is set by their occupation. They can never exceed this cap regardless of level or roll except by taking the Windfall feat, which ups their wealth as normal but also increased their maximum possible Wealth. In this way, the scholteacher is never going to have a Wealth greater than 15, regardless of what happens, which some DMs may like.

(In my game, we set no limits. My librarian DMPC has a Wealth of 19 right now, and once had it as high as 22. The explanation? He has rich family overseas that send him money occasionally in an attempt to get him to settle down. Lately they have been sending larger sums of money.)

 

[NekoAli]

Something else I thought of on the Wealth system: I agree that, given time, the PC's wealth levels will keep rising faster than it makes sense for them to, and eventually beyond the reasonable limit for their chosen professions. One simple way to handle that is to put the burden on the player to explain it. Perhaps the character is playing the stock market in their spare time, or they inherited some cash from a distant relative, or they won the lotto.

This would be one way to handle it... but wouldn't it seem odd that all the PCs have rich family/good stock options/incredible gambling luck to make all this extra money? Perhaps looking a bit to much into it, but the whole point of the post is that the current Wealth system doesn't work very well, or give any kind of accurate reflection of modern earning potential.

Mostly to the point, why should a character's Wealth have anything to do with their level? Can't you have a filthy rich debutante 1st level character, or a dead broke 10th level jobless one? Sure, you could spend your first level feats on windfall, and take a rich occupation to be fairly wealthy at 1st level but that seems somewhat unsatisfying. And it still doesn't address the 'more money as you gain levels' issue. I would think a set starting Wealth depending on occupation (perhaps some random value included there for variety) would still work better than just the bonus. Skip the profession checks every level, but rather make them when you do something in game to warrent them. Haven't been chasing monsters lately, so you haven't gone up in level, but spending a lot of overtime at work? Profession check for a performance review. Not showing up because of an emergency flight down to south america to fight Hitler's brain in a jar? Maybe you went up a few levels, but your S-Mart supervisor won't be impressed by it.

Of course, if you are running a military or agency style game, your characters would be paid depending on their rank, so it would probably be appropriate to make profession checks as you go up in levels. It all depends on the campaign and what your 'day job' is.

 

[Doc_Souark]

Pierce I can't give you the Page # but buying used "stuff" is in the book, can't remember what the exact rules are thru.

Just how often do you make Profession checks , once a month or after a rise in level ?

 

[NekoAli]

By the book, you would make a Profession check to raise your wealth when you go up a level.