D&D 4E Is there a "Cliffs Notes" summary of the entire 4E experience?

[Nergal Pendragon]

As long as you weren't on the grassy gnoll. They hate that sort of thing.

Yeah. They prefer to be on top of the situation

And I think we've not only derailed this thread, but we're cruising it down main street and straight towards city hall.

 

[billd91]

grassy gnoll? Probably better than gassy gnoll.

But far superior to a gassy gnoll.

To the Thunderdome! Two men enter. One man leaves.

 

[TwoSix]

And yet again, the acrimonious words of an edition war fade away into friendly laughter and tickle fights.

Leading us to the satisfying conclusion that my edition is better than yours.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I don't think that's sufficient - why are these "deep reserves" apparently specific to each daily (e.g. if you have two dailies, you must use each one once, rather than one of them twice)?

Because the dailies are different? Maybe one daily requires a preternatural feat of strength, another a specifically focused mental state, etc... It's enough that they are defined into being in the PH1 to create the association.

The limitation there is itself dissociated (if not the entire idea that you have only so much stamina for specific things, but unlimited stamina for everything else).

There is a limitation, there is an in-game reason for that limitation. That's associated. You don't have to /like/ the in-game reason. Vancian is arbitrary and contrary to genre, but it still saves daily spells from being dissociative. If not liking an explanation makes it dissociative, then Vancian magic is dissociative (it is one of the most-criticized, least-imitated classic D&D sub-systems) .

(Ironically, if you were trying to add martial dailies to 5e and match the power/versatility of spells with them, you'd /have/ to make the 'deep reserves' they called upon generic enough to power any daily.)

 

[billd91]

Killjoy.

 

[TwoSix]

To the Thunderdome! Two men enter. One man leaves.

I'm going to win. Not only is he short, he's willing to kill himself.

 

[TwoSix]

Killjoy.

"In the land of the Edition War, it is always winter and never Christmas."

 

[Nergal Pendragon]

I'm going to win. Not only is he short, he's willing to kill himself.

Careful! If it's the gassy gnoll, he might unleash a noxious cloud as his opening attack! And if he dies, it might be explosive!

 

[Alzrius]

Because the dailies are different? Maybe one daily requires a preternatural feat of strength, another a specifically focused mental state, etc... It's enough that they are defined into being in the PH1 to create the association.

Are they different? Are they all necessarily different from each other in what they require, and that that can only be used once per day? If you can't define why that works the way it does from an in-character standpoint, then it's not associated, and this really doesn't seem like it does.

There is a limitation, there is an in-game reason for that limitation. That's associated. You don't have to /like/ the in-game reason.

The reason has to actually be plausible, or it's not a reason. Saying "you're too tired to do this again, but you can still do all of these other physically demanding tasks just fine" doesn't pass the muster.

Vancian is arbitrary and contrary to genre, but it still saves daily spells from being dissociative. If not liking an explanation makes it dissociative, then Vancian magic is dissociative (it is one of the most-criticized, least-imitated classic D&D sub-systems) .

It's not a question of liking the reason or not - the reason has to actually be reasonable. Selective fatigue and undefined "reserves" that are specific to each particular special move don't have that element of reasonableness.

Likewise, magic is never dissociative because it's magic - it will always have an in-character explanation that stands to reason, because it necessarily sets what the reasons are for itself.

(Ironically, if you were trying to add martial dailies to 5e and match the power/versatility of spells with them, you'd /have/ to make the 'deep reserves' they called upon generic enough to power any daily.)

Which sort of underscores the point.

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'm going to win. Not only is he short, he's willing to kill himself.