D&D 4E Is there a "Cliffs Notes" summary of the entire 4E experience?

[Tony Vargas]

Neither, Vancian magic isn't dissociative because magic isn't dissociative - magic is associated because it necessarily has an in-character element to it.

Likewise, restrictions are not themselves dissociative; the dissociation comes when there's no in-game reason for those restrictions to exist.

So, for instance, 4e martial dailies are not dissociative, since there's an in-game reason spelled out in the PH1 (the character has limited 'deep reserves' of strength/determination/whatever that are exhausted (presumably in a specific way) when the daily is used).

 

[Nagol]

I have to admit, all of the malice pointed out martial classes trying to do anything too "unrealistic" makes me realize, in hindsight, the genius of Earthdawn's "everyone is magic".

Cause yeah, a warrior who calls up elemental forces to sheathe his skin in rock to shrug off blows, make tremendous leaps by riding the wind, etc lets you do all that crazy action from movies without worrying about the simulation-y problems.

Or even Runequest! Three different magic systems, almost everyone has access to two of them (and frankly they are the better two).

 

[Alzrius]

I have to admit, all of the malice pointed out martial classes trying to do anything too "unrealistic" makes me realize, in hindsight, the genius of Earthdawn's "everyone is magic".

Cause yeah, a warrior who calls up elemental forces to sheathe his skin in rock to shrug off blows, make tremendous leaps by riding the wind, etc lets you do all that crazy action from movies without worrying about the simulation-y problems.

That sounds awesome. Rather ironically, it's the same place I ended up using a point-buy character-generator for my d20-based games. Without defining "magic" as "spellcasting" (and removing spellcasting from specific class progressions), things suddenly become much more open in terms of what characters can potentially do.

 

[Tony Vargas]

4e works great once you realize "martial" means Jedi.

As long as it's pre-midichlorians jedi.

 

[Nergal Pendragon]

Come on now, think of Eric's poor grandmother.

She could probably use the distraction from mourning her grandson's unfortunate encounter with a gazebo.

 

[Nagol]

As long as it's pre-midichlorians jedi.

Shouldn't that be post-midichlorian? After all the midi-comment came in Episode I...

 

[billd91]

4e works great once you realize "martial" means Jedi.

Of course, not everyone wants to be a Jedi, nor did everyone think that the Jedi abilities we saw in the prequels were a good idea. Besides, Star Wars games with all Jedi are boring. The game needs scoundrels (at the very least) to liven things up.

 

[TwoSix]

She could probably use the distraction from mourning her grandson's unfortunate encounter with a gazebo.

So you're the fiend responsible for his half-fiend love child!

 

[Alzrius]

So, for instance, 4e martial dailies are not dissociative, since there's an in-game reason spelled out in the PH1 (the character has limited 'deep reserves' of strength/determination/whatever that are exhausted (presumably in a specific way) when the daily is used).

I don't think that's sufficient - why are these "deep reserves" apparently specific to each daily (e.g. if you have two dailies, you must use each one once, rather than one of them twice)? The limitation there is itself dissociated (if not the entire idea that you have only so much stamina for specific things, but unlimited stamina for everything else).

 

[Kraztur]

Quick, somebody start a new thread!

Remember to port over the list of analogies, otherwise we will lose continuity and argumentative cohesiveness in the forked thread. They are ice cream (vanilla and pistachio so far), cars, brocolli, stew with rice, Transformers Age of Extinction, one sweater, apricot or orange (TBD) and one bug zapper.